At Devadaha · Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato, SuttaCentral
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Evaṁ vutte, ahaṁ, bhikkhave, te nigaṇṭhe etadavocaṁ: ‘pañca kho ime, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, dhammā diṭṭheva dhamme dvidhāvipākā. Katame pañca? Saddhā, ruci, anussavo, ākāraparivitakko, diṭṭhinijjhānakkhanti— ime kho, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, pañca dhammā diṭṭheva dhamme dvidhāvipākā. Tatrāyasmantānaṁ nigaṇṭhānaṁ kā atītaṁse satthari saddhā, kā ruci, ko anussavo, ko ākāraparivitakko, kā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantī’ti. Evaṁvādī kho ahaṁ, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhesu na kañci sahadhammikaṁ vādapaṭihāraṁ samanupassāmi.
When they said this, I said to them, ‘These five things can be seen to turn out in two different ways in this very life. What five? Faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, and acceptance of a view after deliberation. These are the five things that can be seen to turn out in two different ways in this very life. In this case, what faith in your teacher do you have when it comes to the past? What endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation?’ When I said this, I did not see any legitimate defense of their doctrine from the Jains.
Puna caparāhaṁ, bhikkhave, te nigaṇṭhe evaṁ vadāmi: ‘taṁ kiṁ maññatha, āvuso nigaṇṭhā. Yasmiṁ vo samaye tibbo upakkamo hoti tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha; yasmiṁ pana vo samaye na tibbo upakkamo hoti na tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, na tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyethā’ti? ‘Yasmiṁ no, āvuso gotama, samaye tibbo upakkamo hoti tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyāma; yasmiṁ pana no samaye na tibbo upakkamo hoti na tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, na tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyāmā’ti.
Furthermore, I said to those Jain ascetics, ‘What do you think, reverends? At a time of intense exertion and striving do you suffer painful, sharp, severe, acute feelings due to exertion? Whereas at a time without intense exertion and striving do you not suffer painful, sharp, severe, acute feelings due to exertion?’ ‘Reverend Gotama, at a time of intense exertion we suffer painful, sharp feelings due to exertion, not without intense exertion.’
‘Iti kira, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, yasmiṁ vo samaye tibbo upakkamo hoti tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha; yasmiṁ pana vo samaye na tibbo upakkamo hoti na tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, na tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha. Evaṁ sante āyasmantānaṁ nigaṇṭhānaṁ na kallamassa veyyākaraṇāya: “yaṁ kiñcāyaṁ purisapuggalo paṭisaṁvedeti sukhaṁ vā dukkhaṁ vā adukkhamasukhaṁ vā, sabbaṁ taṁ pubbekatahetu. Iti purāṇānaṁ kammānaṁ tapasā byantībhāvā, navānaṁ kammānaṁ akaraṇā, āyatiṁ anavassavo; āyatiṁ anavassavā kammakkhayo; kammakkhayā dukkhakkhayo; dukkhakkhayā vedanākkhayo; vedanākkhayā sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī”ti.
‘So it seems that only at a time of intense exertion do you suffer painful, sharp feelings due to exertion, not without intense exertion. In that case, it’s not appropriate for the Jain venerables to declare: “Everything this individual person experiences—pleasurable, painful, or neutral—is because of past deeds. …”
Sace, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, yasmiṁ vo samaye tibbo upakkamo hoti tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, na tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha; yasmiṁ pana vo samaye na tibbo upakkamo hoti na tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha; evaṁ sante āyasmantānaṁ nigaṇṭhānaṁ kallamassa veyyākaraṇāya: “yaṁ kiñcāyaṁ purisapuggalo paṭisaṁvedeti sukhaṁ vā dukkhaṁ vā adukkhamasukhaṁ vā, sabbaṁ taṁ pubbekatahetu. Iti purāṇānaṁ kammānaṁ tapasā byantībhāvā, navānaṁ kammānaṁ akaraṇā, āyatiṁ anavassavo; āyatiṁ anavassavā kammakkhayo; kammakkhayā dukkhakkhayo; dukkhakkhayā vedanākkhayo; vedanākkhayā sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī”ti.
If at a time of intense exertion you did not suffer painful, sharp feelings due to exertion, and if without intense exertion you did experience such feelings, it would be appropriate for the Jain venerables to declare this.
Yasmā ca kho, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, yasmiṁ vo samaye tibbo upakkamo hoti tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha; yasmiṁ pana vo samaye na tibbo upakkamo hoti na tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, na tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha; te tumhe sāmaṁyeva opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vedayamānā avijjā aññāṇā sammohā vipaccetha: “yaṁ kiñcāyaṁ purisapuggalo paṭisaṁvedeti sukhaṁ vā dukkhaṁ vā adukkhamasukhaṁ vā, sabbaṁ taṁ pubbekatahetu. Iti purāṇānaṁ kammānaṁ tapasā byantībhāvā, navānaṁ kammānaṁ akaraṇā, āyatiṁ anavassavo; āyatiṁ anavassavā kammakkhayo; kammakkhayā dukkhakkhayo; dukkhakkhayā vedanākkhayo; vedanākkhayā sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī”’ti.
But since this is not the case, aren’t you experiencing painful, sharp feelings due only to your own exertion, which out of ignorance, unknowing, and confusion you misconstrue to imply: “Everything this individual person experiences—pleasurable, painful, or neutral—is because of past deeds. …”?’
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