Devadahasutta

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Majjhima Nikāya 101

At Devadaha · Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato, SuttaCentral

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Evaṁvādīpi kho ahaṁ, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhesu na kañci sahadhammikaṁ vādapaṭihāraṁ samanupassāmi.

When I said this, I did not see any legitimate defense of their doctrine from the Jains.

Puna caparāhaṁ, bhikkhave, te nigaṇṭhe evaṁ vadāmi:
‘taṁ kiṁ maññathāvuso nigaṇṭhā, yamidaṁ kammaṁ diṭṭhadhammavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā samparāyavedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti?
‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.
‘Yaṁ panidaṁ kammaṁ samparāyavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā diṭṭhadhammavedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti?
‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.

Furthermore, I said to those Jain ascetics, ‘What do you think, reverends? If a deed is to be experienced in this life, can exertion make it be experienced in lives to come?’ ‘No, reverend.’ ‘But if a deed is to be experienced in lives to come, can exertion make it be experienced in this life?’ ‘No, reverend.’

‘Taṁ kiṁ maññathāvuso nigaṇṭhā, yamidaṁ kammaṁ sukhavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā dukkhavedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti?
‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.
‘Yaṁ panidaṁ kammaṁ dukkhavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā sukhavedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti?
‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.

‘What do you think, reverends? If a deed is to be experienced as pleasant, can exertion make it be experienced as painful?’ ‘No, reverend.’ ‘But if a deed is to be experienced as painful, can exertion make it be experienced as pleasant?’ ‘No, reverend.’

‘Taṁ kiṁ maññathāvuso nigaṇṭhā, yamidaṁ kammaṁ paripakkavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā aparipakkavedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti?
‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.
‘Yaṁ panidaṁ kammaṁ aparipakkavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā paripakkavedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti?
‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.

‘What do you think, reverends? If a deed is to be experienced when ripe, can exertion make it be experienced when unripe?’ ‘No, reverend.’ ‘But if a deed is to be experienced when unripe, can exertion make it be experienced when ripe?’ ‘No, reverend.’

‘Taṁ kiṁ maññathāvuso nigaṇṭhā, yamidaṁ kammaṁ bahuvedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā appavedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti?
‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.
‘Yaṁ panidaṁ kammaṁ appavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā bahuvedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti?
‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.

‘What do you think, reverends? If a deed is to be experienced a lot, can exertion make it be experienced a little?’ ‘No, reverend.’ ‘But if a deed is to be experienced a little, can exertion make it be experienced a lot?’ ‘No, reverend.’

‘Taṁ kiṁ maññathāvuso nigaṇṭhā, yamidaṁ kammaṁ savedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā avedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti?
‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.
‘Yaṁ panidaṁ kammaṁ avedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā savedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti?
‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’.

‘What do you think, reverends? If a deed is to be experienced, can exertion make it not be experienced?’ ‘No, reverend.’ ‘But if a deed is not to be experienced, can exertion make it be experienced?’ ‘No, reverend.’

‘So it seems that exertion cannot change the way deeds are experienced in any of these ways.

evaṁ sante āyasmantānaṁ nigaṇṭhānaṁ aphalo upakkamo hoti, aphalaṁ padhānaṁ’.

This being so, your exertion and striving are fruitless.’

Evaṁvādī, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhā.
Evaṁvādīnaṁ, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhānaṁ dasa sahadhammikā vādānuvādā gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgacchanti.
Sace, bhikkhave, sattā pubbekatahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti;
addhā, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhā pubbe dukkaṭakammakārino yaṁ etarahi evarūpā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyanti.
Sace, bhikkhave, sattā issaranimmānahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti;
addhā, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhā pāpakena issarena nimmitā yaṁ etarahi evarūpā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyanti.
Sace, bhikkhave, sattā saṅgatibhāvahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti;
addhā, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhā pāpasaṅgatikā yaṁ etarahi evarūpā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyanti.
Sace, bhikkhave, sattā abhijātihetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti;
addhā, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhā pāpābhijātikā yaṁ etarahi evarūpā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyanti.
Sace, bhikkhave, sattā diṭṭhadhammūpakkamahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti;

Such is the doctrine of the Jain ascetics. Saying this, the Jain ascetics deserve rebuttal and criticism on ten legitimate grounds. If sentient beings experience pleasure and pain because of past deeds, clearly the Jains have done bad deeds in the past, since they now experience such intense pain. If sentient beings experience pleasure and pain because of God Almighty’s creation, clearly the Jains were created by a bad God, since they now experience such intense pain. If sentient beings experience pleasure and pain because of circumstance and nature, clearly the Jains arise from bad circumstances, since they now experience such intense pain. If sentient beings experience pleasure and pain because of the class of rebirth, clearly the Jains have been reborn in a bad class, since they now experience such intense pain. If sentient beings experience pleasure and pain because of exertion in this life,

clearly the Jains exert themselves badly in this life, since they now experience such intense pain. The Jains deserve criticism whether or not sentient beings experience pleasure and pain because of past deeds, or God Almighty’s creation, or circumstance and nature, or class of rebirth, or exertion in this life. Such is the doctrine of the Jain ascetics.

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