Cūḷasaccakasutta

Majjhima Nikāya 35

The Shorter Discourse With Saccaka · Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato, SuttaCentral

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by thatTena indeedkho thenpana timesamayena severalsambahulā monksbhikkhū in the open airabbhokāse they are walkingcaṅkamanti.
thenAtha indeedkho Saccakasaccako Jain·sonnigaṇṭhaputto whereyena thosete monksbhikkhū he approached themtenupasaṅkami; having approachedupasaṅkamitvā thosete monksbhikkhū he said thisetadavoca:
where“kahaṁ nownu indeedkho, sirsbho, at presentetarahi thatso worthybhavaṁ Gotamagotamo he dwellsviharati?
seeing·desiringDassanakāmā forhi wemayaṁ himtaṁ worthybhavantaṁ Gotamagotaman”ti.
Esa“Esa, Aggivessanaaggivessana, blessed onebhagavā great·woodmahāvanaṁ having plunged intoajjhogāhetvā at a certainaññatarasmiṁ tree·rootrukkhamūle day·meditationdivāvihāraṁ seatednisinno”ti.

At that time several mendicants were walking mindfully in the open air. Then Saccaka went up to them and said, “Good fellows, where is the worthy Gotama at present? For we want to see him.” “Aggivessana, the Buddha has plunged deep into the Great Wood and is sitting at the root of a tree for the day’s meditation.”

thenAtha indeedkho Saccakasaccako Jain·sonnigaṇṭhaputto with a largemahatiyā Licchavi·grouplicchaviparisāya together withsaddhiṁ great·woodmahāvanaṁ having enteredajjhogāhetvā whereyena the Blessed Onebhagavā he approached himtenupasaṅkami; having approachedupasaṅkamitvā with the Blessed Onebhagavatā together withsaddhiṁ exchanged greetingssammodi.
greetingSammodanīyaṁ conversationkathaṁ politesāraṇīyaṁ having exchangedvītisāretvā one·sideekamantaṁ sat downnisīdi.
those·tooTepi indeedkho Licchavislicchavī some·oneappekacce the Blessed Onebhagavantaṁ having bowedabhivādetvā one·sideekamantaṁ they sat downnisīdiṁsu, some·oneappekacce with the Blessed Onebhagavatā together withsaddhiṁ exchanged greetingssammodiṁsu, greetingsammodanīyaṁ conversationkathaṁ politesāraṇīyaṁ having exchangedvītisāretvā one·sideekamantaṁ they sat downnisīdiṁsu. some·oneAppekacce whereyena the Blessed Onebhagavā toward him cupped palmstenañjaliṁ having held uppaṇāmetvā one·sideekamantaṁ they sat downnisīdiṁsu, some·oneappekacce of the Blessed Onebhagavato in the presencesantike name·clannāmagottaṁ having announcedsāvetvā one·sideekamantaṁ they sat downnisīdiṁsu, some·oneappekacce silent·becometuṇhībhūtā one·sideekamantaṁ they sat downnisīdiṁsu.

Then Saccaka, together with a large group of Licchavis, went to the Buddha in the Great Wood, and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side. Before sitting down to one side, some of the Licchavīs bowed, some exchanged greetings and polite conversation, some held up their cupped palms toward the Buddha, some announced their name and clan, while some kept silent.

one·sideEkamantaṁ seatednisinno indeedkho Saccakasaccako son of a Jainnigaṇṭhaputto blessed·onebhagavantaṁ said thisetadavoca:
I might ask“puccheyyāhaṁ the worthybhavantaṁ Gotamagotamaṁ some·indeedkiñcideva pointdesaṁ, ifsace to meme the worthybhavaṁ Gotamagotamo opportunityokāsaṁ makeskaroti of a questionpañhassa for answeringveyyākaraṇāyā”ti.
ask“Puccha, Aggivessanaaggivessana, whatever you wishyadākaṅkhasī”ti.
how“Kathaṁ thenpana the worthybhavaṁ Gotamagotamo disciplessāvake lead·guidevineti, what·topickathaṁbhāgā andca thenpana of the worthybhoto Gotamagotamassa to disciplessāvakesu along·instructionanusāsanī usuallybahulā proceedspavattatī”ti?
thus“Evaṁ indeedkho Iahaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, disciplessāvake lead·guidevinemi, these·topicevaṁbhāgā andca thenpana myme to disciplessāvakesu along·instructionanusāsanī usuallybahulā forth·proceedpavattati:
form‘rūpaṁ, monksbhikkhave, not·permanentaniccaṁ, feelingvedanā not·permanentaniccā, perceptionsaññā not·permanentaniccā, choicessaṅkhārā not·permanentaniccā, separately·knowingviññāṇaṁ not·permanentaniccaṁ.
formRūpaṁ, monksbhikkhave, not·selfanattā, feelingvedanā not·selfanattā, perceptionsaññā not·selfanattā, choicessaṅkhārā not·selfanattā, separately·knowingviññāṇaṁ not·selfanattā.
allSabbe conditionssaṅkhārā not·permanentaniccā, allsabbe thingsdhammā not-selfanattā’ti.
thusEvaṁ indeedkho Iahaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, disciplessāvake lead·guidevinemi, these·topicevaṁbhāgā andca thenpana myme to disciplessāvakesu along·instructionanusāsanī usuallybahulā proceedspavattatī”ti.

Then Saccaka said to the Buddha, “I’d like to ask the worthy Gotama about a certain point, if you’d take the time to answer.” “Ask what you wish, Aggivessana.” “How does the worthy Gotama guide his disciples? And on what topics does instruction to his disciples generally proceed?” “This is how I guide my disciples, and my instructions to disciples generally proceed on these topics: ‘Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness are impermanent. Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness are not-self. All conditions are impermanent. All things are not-self.’ This is how I guide my disciples, and how instruction to my disciples generally proceeds.”

a simile“Upamā memaṁ, worthybho Gotamagotama, strikes; quotation markerpaṭibhātī”ti.
let it strike“Paṭibhātu youtaṁ, Aggivessana; quotation markeraggivessanā”ti the Buddhabhagavā saidavoca.
just as“Seyyathāpi, worthybho Gotamagotama, whicheverye thesekecime seed-group·plant-groupbījagāmabhūtagāmā growthvuddhiṁ increasevirūḷhiṁ maturityvepullaṁ achieveāpajjanti, allsabbe theyte the earthpathaviṁ depending onnissāya on the earthpathaviyaṁ groundedpatiṭṭhāya.
in this way theseEvamete seed-group·plant-groupbījagāmabhūtagāmā growthvuddhiṁ increasevirūḷhiṁ maturityvepullaṁ achieveāpajjanti.
just asSeyyathāpi orvā indeedpana, worthybho Gotamagotama, whicheverye thesekecime hard workbalakaraṇīyā taskskammantā get donekarīyanti, allsabbe theyte the earthpathaviṁ depending onnissāya on the earthpathaviyaṁ groundedpatiṭṭhāya.
in this way theseEvamete hard workbalakaraṇīyā taskskammantā get donekarīyanti.

“A simile strikes me, worthy Gotama.” “Then speak as you feel inspired,” said the Buddha. “All the plants and seeds that achieve growth, increase, and maturity do so depending on the earth and grounded on the earth. All the hard work that gets done depends on the earth and is grounded on the earth.

thus·justEvameva indeedkho, sirbho Gotamagotama, whose self is formrūpattāyaṁ person·individualpurisapuggalo in formrūpe establishedpatiṭṭhāya meritpuññaṁ orvā not·meritapuññaṁ orvā they brim withpasavati, whose self is feelingvedanattāyaṁ person·individualpurisapuggalo in feelingvedanāyaṁ establishedpatiṭṭhāya meritpuññaṁ orvā not·meritapuññaṁ orvā they brim withpasavati, whose self is perceptionsaññattāyaṁ person·individualpurisapuggalo in perceptionsaññāyaṁ establishedpatiṭṭhāya meritpuññaṁ orvā not·meritapuññaṁ orvā they brim withpasavati, whose self is choicessaṅkhārattāyaṁ person·individualpurisapuggalo in choicessaṅkhāresu establishedpatiṭṭhāya meritpuññaṁ orvā not·meritapuññaṁ orvā they brim withpasavati, whose self is consciousnessviññāṇattāyaṁ person·individualpurisapuggalo in consciousnessviññāṇe establishedpatiṭṭhāya meritpuññaṁ orvā not·meritapuññaṁ orvā they brim with”pasavatī”ti.

In the same way, an individual person’s self is form. Established on form they brim with merit and wickedness. An individual person’s self is feeling … perception … choices … consciousness. Established on consciousness they brim with merit and wickedness.”

is it not“Nanu youtvaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, thusevaṁ you sayvadesi:
form‘rūpaṁ myme selfattā, feelingvedanā myme selfattā, perceptionsaññā myme selfattā, choicessaṅkhārā myme selfattā, consciousnessviññāṇaṁ myme selfattā’”ti?
I indeed“Ahañhi, worthybho Gotamagotama, thusevaṁ I sayvadāmi:
form‘rūpaṁ myme selfattā, feelingvedanā myme selfattā, perceptionsaññā myme selfattā, choicessaṅkhārā myme selfattā, consciousnessviññāṇaṁ myme selfattā’ti, this·andayañca bigmahatī crowdjanatā”ti.
what indeed“Kiñhi to youte, Aggivessanaaggivessana, bigmahatī crowdjanatā do·willkarissati?
pleaseIṅgha youtvaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, own·indeed·justsakaññeva statementvādaṁ unpacknibbeṭhehī”ti.
I indeed“Ahañhi, worthybho Gotamagotama, thusevaṁ I sayvadāmi:
form‘rūpaṁ myme selfattā, feelingvedanā myme selfattā, perceptionsaññā myme selfattā, choicessaṅkhārā myme selfattā, consciousnessviññāṇaṁ myme selfattā’”ti.

“Aggivessana, are you not saying this: ‘Form is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, choices are my self, consciousness is my self’?” “Indeed, worthy Gotama, that is what I am saying. And this big crowd agrees with me!” “What has this big crowd to do with you? Please just unpack your own statement.” “Then, worthy Gotama, what I am saying is this: ‘Form is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, choices are my self, consciousness is my self’.”

“Well then, Aggivessana, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like. What do you think, Aggivessana? Consider an anointed aristocratic king such as Pasenadi of Kosala or Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of the princess of Videha. Would they have the power in their own realm to execute those who have incurred execution, fine those who have incurred fines, or banish those who have incurred banishment?” “An anointed king would have such power, worthy Gotama. Even federations such as the Vajjis and Mallas have such power in their own realm.

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