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Majjhima Nikāya 35

Cūḷasaccakasutta

The Shorter Discourse With Saccaka · Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato, SuttaCentral

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this‘etaṁ minemama, I am thisesohamasmi, thiseso myme selfattā’”ti?
no“No indeedhidaṁ, worthybho Gotamagotama”.

that“Taṁ whatkiṁ do you thinkmaññasi, Aggivessanaaggivessana,
whoyo thennu indeedkho sufferingdukkhaṁ resorted toallīno sufferingdukkhaṁ drawn near toupagato sufferingdukkhaṁ clung toajjhosito, sufferingdukkhaṁ this‘etaṁ minemama, I am thisesohamasmi, thiseso myme selfattā’ti regardssamanupassati, wouldapi thennu indeedkho heso himselfsāmaṁ orvā sufferingdukkhaṁ could completely understandparijāneyya, sufferingdukkhaṁ orvā having wiped outparikkhepetvā would livevihareyyā”ti?
how could“Kiñhi it besiyā, worthybho Gotamagotama?
noNo indeed thishidaṁ, worthybho Gotamagotamā”ti.
that“Taṁ whatkiṁ do you thinkmaññasi, Aggivessanaaggivessana,
not·thennanu youtvaṁ thusevaṁ this being sosante sufferingdukkhaṁ resorted toallīno sufferingdukkhaṁ drawn near toupagato sufferingdukkhaṁ clung toajjhosito, sufferingdukkhaṁ:
this‘etaṁ minemama, I am thisesohamasmi, thiseso myme selfattā’ti do you regardsamanupassasī”ti?
how could“Kiñhi notno it besiyā, worthybho Gotamagotama?
so it isEvametaṁ, worthybho Gotamagotamā”ti.

just as“Seyyathāpi, Aggivessanaaggivessana, a personpuriso heartwood·needsāratthiko heartwood·seeksāragavesī search for heartwoodsārapariyesanaṁ wanderingcaramāno sharptiṇhaṁ axekuṭhāriṁ toward·takeādāya forestvanaṁ would enterpaviseyya.
heSo theretattha would seepasseyya bigmahantaṁ banana·trunkkadalikkhandhaṁ straightujuṁ youngnavaṁ grown unskewedakukkukajātaṁ.
itTamenaṁ at the basemūle would cutchindeyya, at the basemūle having cutchetvā at the topagge would cutchindeyya, at the topagge having cutchetvā leaf·coilpattavaṭṭiṁ would unrollvinibbhujeyya.
heSo theretattha leaf·coilpattavaṭṭiṁ apart·down·unrollvinibbhujanto even sapwoodpheggumpi would not findnādhigaccheyya, how much lesskuto heartwood?sāraṁ?
in the same wayEvameva indeedkho youtvaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, by memayā in your ownsakasmiṁ doctrinevāde pursuedsamanuyuñjiyamāno pressedsamanugāhiyamāno grilledsamanubhāsiyamāno vacuousritto hollowtuccho mistakenaparaddho.
statedBhāsitā indeedkho butpana by youte thisesā, Aggivessanaaggivessana, in Vesālīvesāliyaṁ in the assemblyparisati speechvācā:
I do not‘nāhaṁ anytaṁ seepassāmi asceticsamaṇaṁ orvā brahminbrāhmaṇaṁ orvā, leader of an ordersaṅghiṁ leader of a communitygaṇiṁ tutor of a communitygaṇācariyaṁ, evenapi a perfected onearahantaṁ fully·awakened Buddhasammāsambuddhaṁ claimingpaṭijānamānaṁ, whoyo by memayā in debatevādena debatevādaṁ taken onsamāraddho notna would shakesaṅkampeyya notna would rocksampakampeyya notna would tremblesampavedheyya, of whomyassa notna from the armpitskacchehi sweatsedā would be releasedmucceyyuṁ.

postThūṇaṁ if Icepāhaṁ not·sentientacetanaṁ in debatevādena debatevādaṁ together·onto·takesamārabheyyaṁ it·toosāpi by memayā in debatevādena debatevādaṁ together·onto·takensamāraddhā together·shakesaṅkampeyya together·forth·shakesampakampeyya together·forth·tremblesampavedheyya.
howKo thenpana speechvādo human beingmanussabhūtassā’ti?
yourTuyhaṁ indeedkho butpana, Aggivessanaaggivessana, someappekaccāni sweat dropssedaphusitāni from foreheadnalāṭā releasedmuttāni, upper·robeuttarāsaṅgaṁ apart·down·breakvinibhinditvā on groundbhūmiyaṁ standingpatiṭṭhitāni.
myMayhaṁ indeedkho butpana, Aggivessanaaggivessana, there is notnatthi nowetarahi in bodykāyasmiṁ sweatsedo”ti.
thusIti the Blessed Onebhagavā in thattasmiṁ assemblyparisati golden·coloredsuvaṇṇavaṇṇaṁ bodykāyaṁ apart·openvivari.
thusEvaṁ when saidvutte, Saccakasaccako Nigaṇṭha·sonnigaṇṭhaputto silent·beingtuṇhībhūto dismayed·beingmaṅkubhūto shoulders·droopingpattakkhandho down·faceadhomukho depressedpajjhāyanto not·having replyappaṭibhāno down·satnisīdi.

thenAtha indeedkho Dummukhadummukho the Licchavi sonlicchaviputto Saccakasaccakaṁ the Nigaṇṭha sonnigaṇṭhaputtaṁ silent·becometuṇhībhūtaṁ dismayed·becomemaṅkubhūtaṁ shoulder·drooppattakkhandhaṁ down·faceadhomukhaṁ broodingpajjhāyantaṁ not·ready speechappaṭibhānaṁ having knownviditvā the Blessed Onebhagavantaṁ this·sayetadavoca:
a simile“upamā to memaṁ, Blessed Onebhagavā, it occurspaṭibhātī”ti.
let it occur“Paṭibhātu to youtaṁ, Dummukhadummukhā”ti the Blessed Onebhagavā saidavoca.
suppose“Seyyathāpi, sirbhante, of a villagegāmassa orvā of a townnigamassa orvā not·faravidūre a lotus pondpokkharaṇī.
there wasTatrāssa a crabkakkaṭako.
thenAtha indeedkho, sirbhante, severalsambahulā boyskumārakā orvā girlskumārikā orvā from thattamhā villagegāmā orvā townnigamā orvā out·gonikkhamitvā towards whichyena thatsā lotus pondpokkharaṇī it·approachtenupasaṅkameyyuṁ; having approachedupasaṅkamitvā thattaṁ lotus pondpokkharaṇiṁ having enteredogāhetvā thattaṁ crabkakkaṭakaṁ from the waterudakā out·pulluddharitvā on solid groundthale down·standpatiṭṭhāpeyyuṁ.
whateverYaññadeva indeedhi thatso, sirbhante, crabkakkaṭako a clawaḷaṁ out·extendabhininnāmeyya thattaṁ that·verytadeva thosete boyskumārakā orvā girlskumārikā orvā with a stickkaṭṭhena orvā with a stonekathalena orvā off·snapsañchindeyyuṁ together·cracksambhañjeyyuṁ together·off·breaksampalibhañjeyyuṁ.
and thusEvañhi thatso, sirbhante, crabkakkaṭako by allsabbehi clawsaḷehi off·snapsañchinnehi together·cracksambhaggehi together·off·breaksampalibhaggehi not·ableabhabbo thattaṁ lotus pondpokkharaṇiṁ againpuna to descend intootarituṁ, just asseyyathāpi beforepubbe.

thus·justEvameva indeedkho, sirbhante, whicheveryāni of Saccakasaccakassa Jain·sonnigaṇṭhaputtassa twistsvisūkāyitāni apart·swervevisevitāni apart·thrashvipphanditāni those·tootānipi allsabbāni by the Buddhabhagavatā snappedsañchinnāni crackedsambhaggāni broken offsampalibhaggāni;
unableabhabbo andca nowdāni, sirbhante, Saccakasaccako the Jain sonnigaṇṭhaputto againpuna the Buddhabhagavantaṁ near·goupasaṅkamituṁ which + thisyadidaṁ looking for a debatevādādhippāyo”ti.

thusEvaṁ when this was saidvutte, Saccakasaccako Nigaṇṭha·sonnigaṇṭhaputto Dummukhadummukhaṁ Licchavi·sonlicchaviputtaṁ said this to himetadavoca:
wait“āgamehi youtvaṁ, Dummukhadummukha, waitāgamehi youtvaṁ, Dummukhadummukha, (…)(…) notna wemayaṁ with youtayā withsaddhiṁ we discussmantema, hereidha wemayaṁ with the worthybhotā Gotamagotamena withsaddhiṁ we discussmantema.
leave aside thisTiṭṭhatesā, worthybho Gotamagotama, of us andamhākañceva of others andaññesañca various·ascetic·brahminsputhusamaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ statementvācā.
nonsenseVilāpaṁ spokenvilapitaṁ I thinkmaññe.
to what extentKittāvatā andca thennu indeedkho of the worthybhoto Gotamagotamassa disciplesāvako instruction·doingsāsanakaro ishoti advice·respondingovādapatikaro crossed·doubttiṇṇavicikiccho gone·indecisionvigatakathaṅkatho assurance·attainedvesārajjappatto other·relianceaparappaccayo teacher·instructionsatthusāsane dwellsviharatī”ti?
here“Idha, Aggivessanaaggivessana, mymama disciplesāvako whateveryaṁ anykiñci formrūpaṁ past future or presentatītānāgatapaccuppannaṁ internalajjhattaṁ orvā externalbahiddhā orvā solidoḷārikaṁ orvā subtlesukhumaṁ orvā inferiorhīnaṁ orvā superiorpaṇītaṁ orvā whateveryaṁ fardūre nearsantike orvā, allsabbaṁ formrūpaṁ this is not‘netaṁ minemama, I am not thisnesohamasmi, notna this is mymeso selfattā’ti thus·thisevametaṁ as·becomeyathābhūtaṁ with right understandingsammappaññāya seespassati;
whateveryā anykāci feelingvedanā …pe……pe…
whateveryā anykāci perceptionsaññā …pe……pe…
whateverye anykeci choicessaṅkhārā …pe……pe…

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