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Majjhima Nikāya 36

Mahāsaccakasutta

The Longer Discourse With Saccaka · Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato, SuttaCentral

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and how“Kathañca, Aggivessanaaggivessana, not·developed·bodyabhāvitakāyo andca ishoti not·developed·mindabhāvitacitto and?ca?
hereIdha, Aggivessanaaggivessana, not·learnedassutavato ordinary personputhujjanassa arisesuppajjati pleasantsukhā feeling.vedanā.
heSo by pleasantsukhāya feelingvedanāya touchedphuṭṭho beingsamāno pleasure·lustfulsukhasārāgī andca ishoti pleasure·lust + andsukhasārāgitañca undergoesāpajjati.
for himTassa thatsā pleasantsukhā feelingvedanā ceasesnirujjhati.
of pleasantSukhāya feelingvedanāya from cessationnirodhā arisesuppajjati painfuldukkhā feeling.vedanā.
heSo by painfuldukkhāya feelingvedanāya touchedphuṭṭho beingsamāno sorrowssocati is wearykilamati lamentsparidevati beating the breasturattāḷiṁ crieskandati confusionsammohaṁ undergoesāpajjati.
for himTassa indeedkho thisesā, Aggivessanaaggivessana, arisen·evenuppannāpi pleasantsukhā feelingvedanā mindcittaṁ having occupiedpariyādāya remainstiṭṭhati because of lack of developmentabhāvitattā of body,kāyassa, arisen·evenuppannāpi painfuldukkhā feelingvedanā mindcittaṁ having occupiedpariyādāya remainstiṭṭhati because of lack of developmentabhāvitattā of mind.cittassa.
for whomeverYassa anyonekassaci, Aggivessanaaggivessana, thusevaṁ both·sideubhatopakkhaṁ arisen·evenuppannāpi pleasantsukhā feelingvedanā mindcittaṁ having occupiedpariyādāya remainstiṭṭhati because of lack of developmentabhāvitattā of body,kāyassa, arisen·evenuppannāpi painfuldukkhā feelingvedanā mindcittaṁ having occupiedpariyādāya remainstiṭṭhati because of lack of developmentabhāvitattā of mind,cittassa, thusevaṁ indeedkho, Aggivessanaaggivessana, not·developed·bodyabhāvitakāyo andca ishoti not·developed·mindabhāvitacitto and.ca.

“And how is someone undeveloped in physical endurance and mind? Take an unlearned ordinary person who has a pleasant feeling. When they experience a pleasant feeling they become full of lust for it. Then that pleasant feeling ceases. And when it ceases, a painful feeling arises. When they suffer painful feeling, they sorrow and wail and lament, beating their breast and falling into confusion. Because their physical endurance is undeveloped, pleasant feelings occupy the mind. And because their mind is undeveloped, painful feelings occupy the mind. Anyone whose mind is occupied by both pleasant and painful feelings like this is undeveloped both in physical endurance and in mind.

how + andKathañca, Aggivessanaaggivessana, developed·bodybhāvitakāyo andca ishoti developed·mindbhāvitacitto and?ca?
hereIdha, Aggivessanaaggivessana, learned·possessingsutavato noble·discipleariyasāvakassa arisesuppajjati pleasantsukhā feeling.vedanā.
heSo by pleasantsukhāya feelingvedanāya touchedphuṭṭho beingsamāno notna pleasure·lustfulsukhasārāgī andca is,hoti, notna pleasure·lustfulness + andsukhasārāgitañca falls.āpajjati.
of himTassa thatsā pleasantsukhā feelingvedanā ceases.nirujjhati.
of pleasantSukhāya feelingvedanāya from cessationnirodhā arisesuppajjati painfuldukkhā feeling.vedanā.
heSo by painfuldukkhāya feelingvedanāya touchedphuṭṭho beingsamāno notna sorrowssocati notna is wearykilamati notna lamentsparidevati notna breast-beatingurattāḷiṁ wailskandati notna confusionsammohaṁ falls.āpajjati.
of himTassa indeedkho this,esā, Aggivessanaaggivessana, arisen + evenuppannāpi pleasantsukhā feelingvedanā mindcittaṁ notna occupyingpariyādāya standstiṭṭhati because of developedbhāvitattā of body,kāyassa, arisen + evenuppannāpi painfuldukkhā feelingvedanā mindcittaṁ notna occupyingpariyādāya standstiṭṭhati because of developedbhāvitattā of mind.cittassa.

And how is someone developed in physical endurance and mind? Take a learned noble disciple who has a pleasant feeling. When they experience a pleasant feeling they don’t become full of lust for it. Then that pleasant feeling ceases. And when it ceases, painful feeling arises. When they suffer painful feelings they don’t sorrow or wail or lament, beating their breast and falling into confusion. Because their physical endurance is developed, pleasant feelings don’t occupy the mind. And because their mind is developed, painful feelings don’t occupy the mind.

of whomYassa anyonekassaci, Aggivessanaaggivessana, thusevaṁ from both sidesubhatopakkhaṁ arisen·evenuppannāpi pleasantsukhā feelingvedanā mindcittaṁ notna having occupiedpariyādāya remainstiṭṭhati developedbhāvitattā of bodykāyassa, arisen·evenuppannāpi painfuldukkhā feelingvedanā mindcittaṁ notna having occupiedpariyādāya remainstiṭṭhati developedbhāvitattā of mindcittassa. thusEvaṁ indeedkho, Aggivessanaaggivessana, developed·bodybhāvitakāyo andca ishoti developed·mindbhāvitacitto andcā”ti.

Anyone whose mind is not occupied by both pleasant and painful feelings like this is developed both in physical endurance and in mind.”

thus“Evaṁ confidentpasanno Iahaṁ of the worthybhoto Gotamagotamassa.
for the worthyBhavañhi Gotamagotamo developed in bodybhāvitakāyo andca ishoti developed in mindbhāvitacitto and ... quotation markercā”ti.
clearly“Addhā indeedkho by youte thisayaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, having approachedāsajja having brought nearupanīya speechvācā spokenbhāsitā,
butapi andca to youte Iahaṁ will answerbyākarissāmi.
sinceYato indeedkho Iahaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, hair and beardkesamassuṁ having shaved offohāretvā ocherkāsāyāni robesvatthāni having dressed inacchādetvā from homeagārasmā to homelessnessanagāriyaṁ went forthpabbajito, thattaṁ surelyvata meme arisenuppannā orvā pleasantsukhā feelingvedanā mindcittaṁ having occupiedpariyādāya will remainṭhassati, arisenuppannā orvā painfuldukkhā feelingvedanā mindcittaṁ having occupiedpariyādāya will remain ... quotation markerṭhassatīti this is notnetaṁ possibleṭhānaṁ is found ... quotation markervijjatī”ti.

“I am quite confident that the worthy Gotama is developed in physical endurance and in mind.” “Your words are clearly invasive and intrusive, Aggivessana. Nevertheless, I will answer you. Ever since I shaved off my hair and beard, dressed in ocher robes, and went forth from the lay life to homelessness, it has not been possible for any pleasant or painful feeling to occupy my mind.”

not“Na indeedhi surelynūna of the worthy onebhoto of Gotamagotamassa arisesuppajjati such kind oftathārūpā pleasantsukhā feelingvedanā of which kindyathārūpā arisenuppannā pleasantsukhā feelingvedanā mindcittaṁ having taken hold ofpariyādāya would remaintiṭṭheyya; notna indeedhi surelynūna of the worthy onebhoto of Gotamagotamassa arisesuppajjati such kind oftathārūpā painfuldukkhā feelingvedanā of which kindyathārūpā arisenuppannā painfuldukkhā feelingvedanā mindcittaṁ having taken hold ofpariyādāya would remaintiṭṭheyyā”ti.

“Worthy Gotama mustn’t have experienced the kind of pleasant or painful feelings that would occupy the mind.”

why“Kiñhi notno could it besiyā, Aggivessanaaggivessana?
hereIdha for meme, Aggivessanaaggivessana, beforepubbeva from awakeningsambodhā of one not fully awakenedanabhisambuddhassa being just a bodhisattabodhisattasseva beingsato this occurredetadahosi:
cramped‘sambādho life at homegharāvāso dirty pathrajāpatho, wide openabbhokāso going forthpabbajjā.
not thisNayidaṁ easysukaraṁ homeagāraṁ for one dwelling inajjhāvasatā utterly fullekantaparipuṇṇaṁ utterly pureekantaparisuddhaṁ like a polished shellsaṅkhalikhitaṁ spiritual lifebrahmacariyaṁ to leadcarituṁ.
why thenYannūnāhaṁ hair and beardkesamassuṁ having shaved offohāretvā ocherkāsāyāni robesvatthāni having dressed inacchādetvā from homeagārasmā to homelessnessanagāriyaṁ I would go forthpabbajeyyan’ti.

“How could I not, Aggivessana? Before my awakening—when I was still unawakened but intent on awakening—I thought: ‘Life at home is cramped and dirty, life gone forth is wide open. It’s not easy for someone living at home to lead the spiritual life utterly full and pure, like a polished shell. Why don’t I shave off my hair and beard, dress in ocher robes, and go forth from the lay life to homelessness?’

thatSo indeedkho Iahaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, lateraparena timesamayena while still youngdaharova beingsamāno, with very black hairsusukāḷakeso with blessedbhadrena youthyobbanena endowedsamannāgato with the firstpaṭhamena agevayasā, of unwillingakāmakānaṁ of mother and fathermātāpitūnaṁ with tearful facesassumukhānaṁ weepingrudantānaṁ, hair and beardkesamassuṁ having shaved offohāretvā ocherkāsāyāni robesvatthāni having dressed inacchādetvā from homeagārasmā homelessnessanagāriyaṁ went forthpabbajiṁ.
thatSo thusevaṁ gone forthpabbajito beingsamāno seeking what is skillfulkiṅkusalagavesī supremeanuttaraṁ state of sublime peacesantivarapadaṁ seekingpariyesamāno whereyena Āḷāraāḷāro Kālāmakālāmo approached himtenupasaṅkamiṁ; having approachedupasaṅkamitvā Āḷāraāḷāraṁ Kālāmakālāmaṁ said thisetadavocaṁ:
I wish‘icchāmahaṁ, reverendāvuso Kālāmakālāma, in thisimasmiṁ teaching and trainingdhammavinaye spiritual lifebrahmacariyaṁ to leadcaritun’ti.
thusEvaṁ spokenvutte, Aggivessanaaggivessana, Āḷāraāḷāro Kālāmakālāmo memaṁ said thisetadavoca:
stay, venerable‘viharatāyasmā,
suchtādiso thisayaṁ teachingdhammo whereyattha sensibleviññū personpuriso soonnacirasseva ownsakaṁ denominationācariyakaṁ with ownsayaṁ insightabhiññā having realizedsacchikatvā having achievedupasampajja should livevihareyyā’ti.
thatSo indeedkho Iahaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, soonnacirasseva quicklykhippameva thattaṁ teachingdhammaṁ memorizedpariyāpuṇiṁ.
thatSo indeedkho Iahaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, as far as only thattāvatakeneva lip-recitaloṭṭhapahatamattena verbal repetitionlapitalāpanamattena doctrine of knowledge andñāṇavādañca I speakvadāmi elder doctrine andtheravādañca, I know‘jānāmi I seepassāmī’ti andca I claimpaṭijānāmi, I andahañceva othersaññe andca.

Some time later, while still with pristine black hair, blessed with youth, in the prime of life—though my mother and father wished otherwise, weeping with tearful faces—I shaved off my hair and beard, dressed in ocher robes, and went forth from the lay life to homelessness. Once I had gone forth I set out to discover what is skillful, seeking the supreme state of sublime peace. I approached Āḷāra Kālāma and said to him, ‘Reverend Kālāma, I wish to lead the spiritual life in this teaching and training.’ Āḷāra Kālāma replied, ‘Stay, venerable. This teaching is such that a sensible person can soon realize their own denomination with their own insight and live having achieved it.’ I quickly memorized that teaching. As far as lip-recital and verbal repetition went, I spoke the doctrine of knowledge, the elder doctrine. I claimed to know and see, and so did others.

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