Mahāsaccakasutta

Majjhima Nikāya 36

The Longer Discourse With Saccaka · Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato, SuttaCentral

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“Kathañca, aggivessana, abhāvitakāyo ca hoti abhāvitacitto ca?
Idha, aggivessana, assutavato puthujjanassa uppajjati sukhā vedanā.
So sukhāya vedanāya phuṭṭho samāno sukhasārāgī ca hoti sukhasārāgitañca āpajjati.
Tassa sā sukhā vedanā nirujjhati.
Sukhāya vedanāya nirodhā uppajjati dukkhā vedanā.
So dukkhāya vedanāya phuṭṭho samāno socati kilamati paridevati urattāḷiṁ kandati sammohaṁ āpajjati.
Tassa kho esā, aggivessana, uppannāpi sukhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhati abhāvitattā kāyassa, uppannāpi dukkhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhati abhāvitattā cittassa.
Yassa kassaci, aggivessana, evaṁ ubhatopakkhaṁ uppannāpi sukhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhati abhāvitattā kāyassa, uppannāpi dukkhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhati abhāvitattā cittassa, evaṁ kho, aggivessana, abhāvitakāyo ca hoti abhāvitacitto ca.

“And how is someone undeveloped in physical endurance and mind? Take an unlearned ordinary person who has a pleasant feeling. When they experience a pleasant feeling they become full of lust for it. Then that pleasant feeling ceases. And when it ceases, a painful feeling arises. When they suffer painful feeling, they sorrow and wail and lament, beating their breast and falling into confusion. Because their physical endurance is undeveloped, pleasant feelings occupy the mind. And because their mind is undeveloped, painful feelings occupy the mind. Anyone whose mind is occupied by both pleasant and painful feelings like this is undeveloped both in physical endurance and in mind.

Kathañca, aggivessana, bhāvitakāyo ca hoti bhāvitacitto ca?
Idha, aggivessana, sutavato ariyasāvakassa uppajjati sukhā vedanā.
So sukhāya vedanāya phuṭṭho samāno na sukhasārāgī ca hoti, na sukhasārāgitañca āpajjati.
Tassa sā sukhā vedanā nirujjhati.
Sukhāya vedanāya nirodhā uppajjati dukkhā vedanā.
So dukkhāya vedanāya phuṭṭho samāno na socati na kilamati na paridevati na urattāḷiṁ kandati na sammohaṁ āpajjati.
Tassa kho esā, aggivessana, uppannāpi sukhā vedanā cittaṁ na pariyādāya tiṭṭhati bhāvitattā kāyassa, uppannāpi dukkhā vedanā cittaṁ na pariyādāya tiṭṭhati bhāvitattā cittassa.

And how is someone developed in physical endurance and mind? Take a learned noble disciple who has a pleasant feeling. When they experience a pleasant feeling they don’t become full of lust for it. Then that pleasant feeling ceases. And when it ceases, painful feeling arises. When they suffer painful feelings they don’t sorrow or wail or lament, beating their breast and falling into confusion. Because their physical endurance is developed, pleasant feelings don’t occupy the mind. And because their mind is developed, painful feelings don’t occupy the mind.

Yassa kassaci, aggivessana, evaṁ ubhatopakkhaṁ uppannāpi sukhā vedanā cittaṁ na pariyādāya tiṭṭhati bhāvitattā kāyassa, uppannāpi dukkhā vedanā cittaṁ na pariyādāya tiṭṭhati bhāvitattā cittassa. Evaṁ kho, aggivessana, bhāvitakāyo ca hoti bhāvitacitto cā”ti.

Anyone whose mind is not occupied by both pleasant and painful feelings like this is developed both in physical endurance and in mind.”

“Evaṁ pasanno ahaṁ bhoto gotamassa.
Bhavañhi gotamo bhāvitakāyo ca hoti bhāvitacitto cā”ti.
“Addhā kho te ayaṁ, aggivessana, āsajja upanīya vācā bhāsitā,
api ca te ahaṁ byākarissāmi.
Yato kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, kesamassuṁ ohāretvā kāsāyāni vatthāni acchādetvā agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajito, taṁ vata me uppannā vā sukhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya ṭhassati, uppannā vā dukkhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya ṭhassatīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjatī”ti.

“I am quite confident that the worthy Gotama is developed in physical endurance and in mind.” “Your words are clearly invasive and intrusive, Aggivessana. Nevertheless, I will answer you. Ever since I shaved off my hair and beard, dressed in ocher robes, and went forth from the lay life to homelessness, it has not been possible for any pleasant or painful feeling to occupy my mind.”

“Na hi nūna bhoto gotamassa uppajjati tathārūpā sukhā vedanā yathārūpā uppannā sukhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭheyya; na hi nūna bhoto gotamassa uppajjati tathārūpā dukkhā vedanā yathārūpā uppannā dukkhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭheyyā”ti.

“Worthy Gotama mustn’t have experienced the kind of pleasant or painful feelings that would occupy the mind.”

“Kiñhi no siyā, aggivessana?
Idha me, aggivessana, pubbeva sambodhā anabhisambuddhassa bodhisattasseva sato etadahosi:
‘sambādho gharāvāso rajāpatho, abbhokāso pabbajjā.
Nayidaṁ sukaraṁ agāraṁ ajjhāvasatā ekantaparipuṇṇaṁ ekantaparisuddhaṁ saṅkhalikhitaṁ brahmacariyaṁ carituṁ.
Yannūnāhaṁ kesamassuṁ ohāretvā kāsāyāni vatthāni acchādetvā agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajeyyan’ti.

“How could I not, Aggivessana? Before my awakening—when I was still unawakened but intent on awakening—I thought: ‘Life at home is cramped and dirty, life gone forth is wide open. It’s not easy for someone living at home to lead the spiritual life utterly full and pure, like a polished shell. Why don’t I shave off my hair and beard, dress in ocher robes, and go forth from the lay life to homelessness?’

So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, aparena samayena daharova samāno, susukāḷakeso bhadrena yobbanena samannāgato paṭhamena vayasā, akāmakānaṁ mātāpitūnaṁ assumukhānaṁ rudantānaṁ, kesamassuṁ ohāretvā kāsāyāni vatthāni acchādetvā agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajiṁ.
So evaṁ pabbajito samāno kiṅkusalagavesī anuttaraṁ santivarapadaṁ pariyesamāno yena āḷāro kālāmo tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā āḷāraṁ kālāmaṁ etadavocaṁ:
‘icchāmahaṁ, āvuso kālāma, imasmiṁ dhammavinaye brahmacariyaṁ caritun’ti.
Evaṁ vutte, aggivessana, āḷāro kālāmo maṁ etadavoca:
‘viharatāyasmā,
tādiso ayaṁ dhammo yattha viññū puriso nacirasseva sakaṁ ācariyakaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja vihareyyā’ti.
So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, nacirasseva khippameva taṁ dhammaṁ pariyāpuṇiṁ.
So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, tāvatakeneva oṭṭhapahatamattena lapitalāpanamattena ñāṇavādañca vadāmi theravādañca, ‘jānāmi passāmī’ti ca paṭijānāmi, ahañceva aññe ca.

Some time later, while still with pristine black hair, blessed with youth, in the prime of life—though my mother and father wished otherwise, weeping with tearful faces—I shaved off my hair and beard, dressed in ocher robes, and went forth from the lay life to homelessness. Once I had gone forth I set out to discover what is skillful, seeking the supreme state of sublime peace. I approached Āḷāra Kālāma and said to him, ‘Reverend Kālāma, I wish to lead the spiritual life in this teaching and training.’ Āḷāra Kālāma replied, ‘Stay, venerable. This teaching is such that a sensible person can soon realize their own denomination with their own insight and live having achieved it.’ I quickly memorized that teaching. As far as lip-recital and verbal repetition went, I spoke the doctrine of knowledge, the elder doctrine. I claimed to know and see, and so did others.

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