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Majjhima Nikāya 36

Mahāsaccakasutta

The Longer Discourse With Saccaka · Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato, SuttaCentral

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Tassa mayhaṁ, aggivessana, etadahosi:
‘na kho āḷāro kālāmo imaṁ dhammaṁ kevalaṁ saddhāmattakena sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmīti pavedeti,
addhā āḷāro kālāmo imaṁ dhammaṁ jānaṁ passaṁ viharatī’ti.
Atha khvāhaṁ, aggivessana, yena āḷāro kālāmo tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā āḷāraṁ kālāmaṁ etadavocaṁ:
‘kittāvatā no, āvuso kālāma, imaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmīti pavedesī’ti?
Evaṁ vutte, aggivessana, āḷāro kālāmo ākiñcaññāyatanaṁ pavedesi.
Tassa mayhaṁ, aggivessana, etadahosi:
‘na kho āḷārasseva kālāmassa atthi saddhā, mayhampatthi saddhā;
na kho āḷārasseva kālāmassa atthi vīriyaṁ, mayhampatthi vīriyaṁ;
na kho āḷārasseva kālāmassa atthi sati, mayhampatthi sati;
na kho āḷārasseva kālāmassa atthi samādhi, mayhampatthi samādhi;
na kho āḷārasseva kālāmassa atthi paññā, mayhampatthi paññā;

Then it occurred to me, ‘It is not solely by mere faith that Āḷāra Kālāma declares: “I realize this teaching with my own insight, and live having achieved it.” Surely he meditates knowing and seeing this teaching.’ So I approached Āḷāra Kālāma and said to him, ‘Reverend Kālāma, to what extent do you say you’ve realized this teaching with your own insight?’ When I said this, he declared the dimension of nothingness. Then it occurred to me, ‘It’s not just Āḷāra Kālāma who has faith, energy, mindfulness, immersion, and wisdom; I too have these things.

yannūnāhaṁ yaṁ dhammaṁ āḷāro kālāmo sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmīti pavedeti tassa dhammassa sacchikiriyāya padaheyyan’ti.
So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, nacirasseva khippameva taṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja vihāsiṁ.

Why don’t I make an effort to realize the same teaching that Āḷāra Kālāma says he has realized with his own insight?’ I quickly realized that teaching with my own insight, and lived having achieved it.

Atha khvāhaṁ, aggivessana, yena āḷāro kālāmo tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā āḷāraṁ kālāmaṁ etadavocaṁ:
‘ettāvatā no, āvuso kālāma, imaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja pavedesī’ti?
‘Ettāvatā kho ahaṁ, āvuso, imaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja pavedemī’ti.
‘Ahampi kho, āvuso, ettāvatā imaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmī’ti.
‘Lābhā no, āvuso, suladdhaṁ no, āvuso,
ye mayaṁ āyasmantaṁ tādisaṁ sabrahmacāriṁ passāma.
Iti yāhaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja pavedemi taṁ tvaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharasi;
yaṁ tvaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharasi tamahaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja pavedemi.

So I approached Āḷāra Kālāma and said to him, ‘Reverend Kālāma, is it up to this point that you realized this teaching with your own insight, and declare having achieved it?’ ‘I have, reverend.’ ‘I too have realized this teaching with my own insight up to this point, and live having achieved it.’ ‘We are fortunate, reverend, so very fortunate to see a venerable such as yourself as one of our spiritual companions! So the teaching that I’ve realized with my own insight, and declare having achieved it, you’ve realized with your own insight, and dwell having achieved it. The teaching that you’ve realized with your own insight, and dwell having achieved it, I’ve realized with my own insight, and declare having achieved it.

Iti yāhaṁ dhammaṁ jānāmi taṁ tvaṁ dhammaṁ jānāsi; yaṁ tvaṁ dhammaṁ jānāsi tamahaṁ dhammaṁ jānāmi.
Iti yādiso ahaṁ tādiso tuvaṁ, yādiso tuvaṁ tādiso ahaṁ.
Ehi dāni, āvuso, ubhova santā imaṁ gaṇaṁ pariharāmā’ti.
Iti kho, aggivessana, āḷāro kālāmo ācariyo me samāno attano antevāsiṁ maṁ samānaṁ attanā samasamaṁ ṭhapesi, uḷārāya ca maṁ pūjāya pūjesi.
Tassa mayhaṁ, aggivessana, etadahosi:
‘nāyaṁ dhammo nibbidāya na virāgāya na nirodhāya na upasamāya na abhiññāya na sambodhāya na nibbānāya saṁvattati, yāvadeva ākiñcaññāyatanūpapattiyā’ti.
So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, taṁ dhammaṁ analaṅkaritvā tasmā dhammā nibbijja apakkamiṁ.

So the teaching that I know, you know, and the teaching you know, I know. I am like you and you are like me. Come now, reverend! We should both lead this community together.’ And that is how my tutor Āḷāra Kālāma placed me, his pupil, on the same position as him, and honored me with high praise. Then it occurred to me, ‘This teaching doesn’t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. It only leads as far as rebirth in the dimension of nothingness.’ Realizing that this teaching was inadequate, I left disappointed.

So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, kiṅkusalagavesī anuttaraṁ santivarapadaṁ pariyesamāno yena udako rāmaputto tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā udakaṁ rāmaputtaṁ etadavocaṁ:
‘icchāmahaṁ, āvuso, imasmiṁ dhammavinaye brahmacariyaṁ caritun’ti.
Evaṁ vutte, aggivessana, udako rāmaputto maṁ etadavoca:
‘viharatāyasmā,
tādiso ayaṁ dhammo yattha viññū puriso nacirasseva sakaṁ ācariyakaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja vihareyyā’ti.
So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, nacirasseva khippameva taṁ dhammaṁ pariyāpuṇiṁ.
So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, tāvatakeneva oṭṭhapahatamattena lapitalāpanamattena ñāṇavādañca vadāmi theravādañca, ‘jānāmi passāmī’ti ca paṭijānāmi, ahañceva aññe ca.
Tassa mayhaṁ, aggivessana, etadahosi:
‘na kho rāmo imaṁ dhammaṁ kevalaṁ saddhāmattakena sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmīti pavedesi.
Addhā rāmo imaṁ dhammaṁ jānaṁ passaṁ vihāsī’ti.

I set out to discover what is skillful, seeking the supreme state of sublime peace. I approached Uddaka son of Rāma and said to him, ‘Reverend, I wish to lead the spiritual life in this teaching and training.’ Uddaka replied, ‘Stay, venerable. This teaching is such that a sensible person can soon realize their own denomination with their own insight and live having achieved it.’ I quickly memorized that teaching. As far as lip-recital and verbal repetition went, I spoke the doctrine of knowledge, the elder doctrine. I claimed to know and see, and so did others. Then it occurred to me, ‘It is not solely by mere faith that Rāma declared: “I realize this teaching with my own insight, and live having achieved it.” Surely he meditated knowing and seeing this teaching.’

Atha khvāhaṁ, aggivessana, yena udako rāmaputto tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā udakaṁ rāmaputtaṁ etadavocaṁ:
‘kittāvatā no āvuso rāmo imaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmīti pavedesī’ti?
Evaṁ vutte, aggivessana, udako rāmaputto nevasaññānāsaññāyatanaṁ pavedesi.
Tassa mayhaṁ, aggivessana, etadahosi:
‘na kho rāmasseva ahosi saddhā, mayhampatthi saddhā;
na kho rāmasseva ahosi vīriyaṁ, mayhampatthi vīriyaṁ;
na kho rāmasseva ahosi sati, mayhampatthi sati;
na kho rāmasseva ahosi samādhi, mayhampatthi samādhi;
na kho rāmasseva ahosi paññā, mayhampatthi paññā;
yannūnāhaṁ yaṁ dhammaṁ rāmo sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmīti pavedesi tassa dhammassa sacchikiriyāya padaheyyan’ti.
So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, nacirasseva khippameva taṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja vihāsiṁ.

So I approached Uddaka son of Rāma and said to him, ‘Reverend, to what extent did Rāma say he’d realized this teaching with his own insight?’ When I said this, Uddaka son of Rāma declared the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception. Then it occurred to me, ‘It’s not just Rāma who had faith, energy, mindfulness, immersion, and wisdom; I too have these things. Why don’t I make an effort to realize the same teaching that Rāma said he had realized with his own insight?’ I quickly realized that teaching with my own insight, and lived having achieved it.

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