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Majjhima Nikāya 36

Mahāsaccakasutta

The Longer Discourse With Saccaka · Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato, SuttaCentral

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thenAtha I indeedkhvāhaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, whereyena Uddakaudako son of Rāmarāmaputto there I approachedtenupasaṅkamiṁ; having approachedupasaṅkamitvā Uddakaudakaṁ son of Rāmarāmaputtaṁ this I saidetadavocaṁ:
to this extent‘ettāvatā for usno reverendāvuso Rāmarāmo thisimaṁ teachingdhammaṁ himselfsayaṁ with higher knowledgeabhiññā having realizedsacchikatvā having achievedupasampajja declared?pavedesī’ti?
to this extent‘Ettāvatā indeedkho reverendāvuso Rāmarāmo thisimaṁ teachingdhammaṁ himselfsayaṁ with higher knowledgeabhiññā having realizedsacchikatvā having achievedupasampajja had declared.pavedesī’ti.
I too‘Ahampi indeed,kho, reverend,āvuso, to this extentettāvatā thisimaṁ teachingdhammaṁ himselfsayaṁ with higher knowledgeabhiññā having realizedsacchikatvā having achievedupasampajja I dwell.viharāmī’ti.
gains‘Lābhā for us,no, reverend,āvuso, well gainedsuladdhaṁ for us,no, reverend,āvuso,
whoye wemayaṁ venerableāyasmantaṁ suchtādisaṁ fellow spiritual companionsabrahmacāriṁ we see.passāma.
thusIti whichyaṁ teachingdhammaṁ Rāmarāmo himselfsayaṁ with higher knowledgeabhiññā having realizedsacchikatvā having achievedupasampajja declared,pavedesi, thattaṁ youtvaṁ teachingdhammaṁ himselfsayaṁ with higher knowledgeabhiññā having realizedsacchikatvā having achievedupasampajja you dwell;viharasi; whichyaṁ youtvaṁ teachingdhammaṁ himselfsayaṁ with higher knowledgeabhiññā having realizedsacchikatvā having achievedupasampajja you dwell,viharasi, thattaṁ teachingdhammaṁ Rāmarāmo himselfsayaṁ with higher knowledgeabhiññā having realizedsacchikatvā having achievedupasampajja declared.pavedesi.

thusIti whichyaṁ teachingdhammaṁ Rāmarāmo directly knewabhiññāsi thattaṁ youtvaṁ teachingdhammaṁ know;jānāsi; whichyaṁ youtvaṁ teachingdhammaṁ knowjānāsi thattaṁ teachingdhammaṁ Rāmarāmo directly knew.abhiññāsi.
thusIti likeyādiso Rāmarāmo wasahosi like thattādiso you;tuvaṁ; likeyādiso youtuvaṁ like thattādiso Rāmarāmo was.ahosi.
comeEhi now,dāni, reverend,āvuso, youtuvaṁ thisimaṁ communitygaṇaṁ should lead.'pariharā’ti.
thusIti indeed,kho, Aggivessana,aggivessana, Uddakaudako son of Rāmarāmaputto spiritual companionsabrahmacārī myme beingsamāno in the position of a tutorācariyaṭṭhāne andca memaṁ placed,ṭhapesi, highuḷārāya andca memaṁ with praisepūjāya honored.pūjesi.
thenTassa to me,mayhaṁ, Aggivessana,aggivessana, this occurred:etadahosi:
'this‘nāyaṁ teachingdhammo to disillusionment,nibbidāya notna to dispassion,virāgāya notna to cessation,nirodhāya notna to peace,upasamāya notna to insight,abhiññāya notna to awakening,sambodhāya notna to extinguishment,nibbānāya leads,saṁvattati, only as far asyāvadeva to rebirth in the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception.'nevasaññānāsaññāyatanūpapattiyā’ti.
thatSo indeedkho I,ahaṁ, Aggivessana,aggivessana, thattaṁ teachingdhammaṁ realizing inadequate,analaṅkaritvā from thattasmā teachingdhammā disappointed,nibbijja left.apakkamiṁ.

thatSo indeedkho Iahaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, seeking what is skillfulkiṅkusalagavesī supremeanuttaraṁ state of sublime peacesantivarapadaṁ seekingpariyesamāno in the Magadhan landsmagadhesu stage by stageanupubbena wanderingcārikaṁ travelingcaramāno whereyena Uruvelāuruvelā the town of Senāsenānigamo I arrived attadavasariṁ.
there I sawTatthaddasaṁ delightfulramaṇīyaṁ parkbhūmibhāgaṁ, lovelypāsādikañca grovevanasaṇḍaṁ, rivernadiñca flowingsandantiṁ cleansetakaṁ with smooth bankssupatitthaṁ charmingramaṇīyaṁ, nearbysamantā andca village to resort to for almsgocaragāmaṁ.
to meTassa to memayhaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, this occurredetadahosi:
delightful‘ramaṇīyo trulyvata sirbho parkbhūmibhāgo, lovelypāsādiko andca grovevanasaṇḍo, rivernadī andca flowssandati cleansetakā with smooth bankssupatitthā charmingramaṇīyā, nearbysamantā andca village to resort to for almsgocaragāmo.
enoughAlaṁ truly thisvatidaṁ for a gentlemankulaputtassa wanting to strivepadhānatthikassa for strivingpadhānāyā’ti.
thatSo indeedkho Iahaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, right theretattheva I sat downnisīdiṁ
this is enough‘alamidaṁ for strivingpadhānāyā’ti.

and then theseApissumaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, threetisso similesupamā occurredpaṭibhaṁsu not supernaturally inspiredanacchariyā in the pastpubbe not heard beforeassutapubbā.
supposeSeyyathāpi, Aggivessanaaggivessana, greenallaṁ logkaṭṭhaṁ sappysasnehaṁ in waterudake lyingnikkhittaṁ.
thenAtha a personpuriso would comeāgaccheyya drill-stickuttarāraṇiṁ having takenādāya:
fire‘aggiṁ I will produceabhinibbattessāmi, heattejo I will make appearpātukarissāmī’ti.
thatTaṁ whatkiṁ do you thinkmaññasi, Aggivessanaaggivessana,
apiapi nunu thatso personpuriso thatamuṁ greenallaṁ logkaṭṭhaṁ sappysasnehaṁ, in waterudake lyingnikkhittaṁ, drill-stickuttarāraṇiṁ having takenādāya drillingabhimanthento fireaggiṁ could produceabhinibbatteyya, heattejo could make appearpātukareyyā”ti?
no“No indeedhidaṁ, worthybho Gotamagotama”.
that“Taṁ of whatkissa causehetu”?
because“Aduñhi, worthybho Gotamagotama, greenallaṁ logkaṭṭhaṁ sappysasnehaṁ, and thattañca andpana in waterudake lyingnikkhittaṁ.
eventuallyYāvadeva andca andpana thatso personpuriso of wearinesskilamathassa of frustrationvighātassa a partakerbhāgī would beassā”ti.

just so“Evameva indeedkho, Aggivessanaaggivessana, whoye forhi anykeci asceticssamaṇā orvā brahminsbrāhmaṇā orvā in bodykāyena andceva in mindcittena andca from sensual pleasureskāmehi not withdrawnavūpakaṭṭhā they dwellviharanti, whichyo andca theirnesaṁ in sensual pleasureskāmesu desire for sensual pleasureskāmacchando affection for sensual pleasureskāmasneho infatuation with sensual pleasureskāmamucchā thirst for sensual pleasureskāmapipāsā passion for sensual pleasureskāmapariḷāho, thatso andca internallyajjhattaṁ notna well given upsuppahīno ishoti, notna well stilledsuppaṭippassaddho, due to exertionopakkamikā even ifcepi thosete mastersbhonto ascetics and brahminssamaṇabrāhmaṇā painfuldukkhā sharptibbā severekharā acutekaṭukā feelingsvedanā they feelvedayanti, incapableabhabbāva theyte of knowledgeñāṇāya of visiondassanāya of supremeanuttarāya of awakeningsambodhāya.
notNo even ifcepi thosete mastersbhonto ascetics and brahminssamaṇabrāhmaṇā due to exertionopakkamikā painfuldukkhā sharptibbā severekharā acutekaṭukā feelingsvedanā they feelvedayanti, incapableabhabbāva theyte of knowledgeñāṇāya of visiondassanāya of supremeanuttarāya of awakeningsambodhāya.
thisAyaṁ indeedkho to memaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, firstpaṭhamā exampleupamā occurredpaṭibhāsi not extraordinaryanacchariyā beforepubbe previously unheardassutapubbā.

another alsoAparāpi indeedkho memaṁ, Aggivessanaaggivessana, seconddutiyā exampleupamā occurred topaṭibhāsi uninspiringanacchariyā beforepubbe never heard beforeassutapubbā.
supposeSeyyathāpi, Aggivessanaaggivessana, greenallaṁ logkaṭṭhaṁ sappysasnehaṁ, far fromārakā waterudakā on dry landthale lyingnikkhittaṁ.
thenAtha personpuriso would comeāgaccheyya drill-stickuttarāraṇiṁ having takenādāya:
fire‘aggiṁ I will produceabhinibbattessāmi, heattejo I will make manifestpātukarissāmī’ti.
thatTaṁ whatkiṁ do you thinkmaññasi, Aggivessanaaggivessana,
thenapi is it thatnu thatso personpuriso thatamuṁ greenallaṁ logkaṭṭhaṁ sappysasnehaṁ, far fromārakā waterudakā on dry landthale lyingnikkhittaṁ, drill-stickuttarāraṇiṁ having takenādāya drillingabhimanthento fireaggiṁ would produceabhinibbatteyya heattejo would make manifestpātukareyyā”ti?
no“No indeed thishidaṁ, worthybho Gotamagotama”.
that“Taṁ of whatkissa is the reasonhetu”?
for indeed that“Aduñhi, worthybho Gotamagotama, greenallaṁ logkaṭṭhaṁ sappysasnehaṁ, even thoughkiñcāpi far fromārakā waterudakā on dry landthale lyingnikkhittaṁ.
eventuallyYāvadeva andca furtherpana thatso personpuriso of wearinesskilamathassa of frustrationvighātassa sharerbhāgī would beassā”ti.

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