Mahāsakuludāyisutta

Majjhima Nikāya 77

The Longer Discourse with Sakuludāyī · Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato, SuttaCentral

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don't“mā good fellowsbhonto Pūraṇapūraṇaṁ Kassapakassapaṁ this + matteretamatthaṁ askpucchittha;
he doesn'tneso thatetaṁ knowsjānāti;
we + thismayametaṁ knowjānāma, usamhe this + matteretamatthaṁ askpucchatha;
we + thismayametaṁ to the venerable onesbhavantānaṁ will answerbyākarissāmā”ti.
once it happenedBhūtapubbaṁ Pūraṇapūraṇo Kassapakassapo armsbāhā forth·grasppaggayha crying outkandanto notna getslabhati:
quiet“appasaddā good fellowsbhonto behontu, don'tmā good fellowsbhonto make a soundsaddamakattha.
they don'tNete, venerable onesbhavante, askpucchanti, meamhe theseete askpucchanti;
we + thesemayametesaṁ will answerbyākarissāmā”ti.
manyBahū indeedkho thenpana of Pūraṇapūraṇassa of Kassapakassapassa disciplessāvakā doctrinevādaṁ up·raiseāropetvā departedapakkantā:
not“na youtvaṁ thisimaṁ teaching + trainingdhammavinayaṁ understandājānāsi, Iahaṁ thisimaṁ teaching + trainingdhammavinayaṁ understandājānāmi, whatkiṁ youtvaṁ thisimaṁ teaching + trainingdhammavinayaṁ will understandājānissasi? practicing wrongMicchāpaṭipanno you aretvamasi, I·amahamasmi practicing rightsammāpaṭipanno, on topicsahitaṁ for meme, not + on topicasahitaṁ for youte, before + to be saidpurevacanīyaṁ afterwardspacchā you saidavaca, after + to be saidpacchāvacanīyaṁ beforepure you saidavaca, what has been thought so much aboutadhiciṇṇaṁ for youte disprovedviparāvattaṁ, up·raiseāropito yourte doctrinevādo, you are refutedniggahitosi, gocara for release in debatevādappamokkhāya, out·entanglenibbeṭhehi orvā ifsace you canpahosī”ti.

“My good fellows, don’t ask Pūraṇa Kassapa about that. He doesn’t know that. I know it. Ask me about it, and I’ll answer you.” Once it so happened that Pūraṇa Kassapa didn’t get his way, though he called out with raised arms, “Be quiet, good fellows, don’t make a sound. They’re not asking you, they’re asking me! I’ll answer you!” Indeed, many of his disciples have left him after refuting his doctrine: “You don’t understand this teaching and training. I understand this teaching and training. What, you understand this teaching and training? You’re practicing wrong. I’m practicing right. I stay on topic, you don’t. You said last what you should have said first. You said first what you should have said last. What you’ve thought so much about has been disproved. Your doctrine is refuted. Go on, save your doctrine! You’re trapped; get yourself out of this—if you can!”

thusIti Pūraṇapūraṇo Kassapakassapo by disciplessāvakānaṁ notna with·dosakkato notna respectedgarukato notna reveredmānito notna venerated,pūjito, notna andca on the contrarypana Pūraṇapūraṇaṁ Kassapakassapaṁ disciplessāvakā with·dosakkatvā respectgaruṁ having madekatvā loyallyupanissāya apart·dwellviharanti.
reviledAkkuṭṭho andca on the contrarypana Pūraṇapūraṇo Kassapakassapo rightly so.'dhammakkosenā’ti.
someEkacce said thus:evamāhaṁsu:
this one too‘ayampi indeedkho Makkhalimakkhali Gosālagosālo …pe……pe…
Ajitaajito hair·blanketkesakambalo ……
Pakudhapakudho Kaccāyanakaccāyano ……
Sañjayasañjayo Belaṭṭhiputtabelaṭṭhaputto ……
without·tienigaṇṭho Ñātika·sonnāṭaputto leads an ordersaṅghī andceva leads a communitygaṇī andca community·teachergaṇācariyo andca well-knownñāto famousyasassī ford·makertitthakaro good·deemedsādhusammato many·peoplebahujanassa;
heso andca indeedkho by disciplessāvakānaṁ notna with·dosakkato notna respectedgarukato notna reveredmānito notna venerated,pūjito, notna andca on the contrarypana without·tienigaṇṭhaṁ Ñātika·sonnāṭaputtaṁ disciplessāvakā with·dosakkatvā respectgaruṁ having madekatvā loyallyupanissāya apart·dwellviharanti.
once it happenedBhūtapubbaṁ without·tienigaṇṭho Ñātika·sonnāṭaputto many·hundredsanekasatāya assemblyparisāya dhammadhammaṁ teaches.deseti.
there a certainTatraññataro without·tienigaṇṭhassa Ñātika·sonnāṭaputtassa disciplesāvako noise·makesaddamakāsi:
don't“mā good fellowsbhonto without·tienigaṇṭhaṁ Ñātika·sonnāṭaputtaṁ that·matter·matteretamatthaṁ ask;pucchittha;

That’s how Pūraṇa Kassapa is not honored, respected, revered, venerated, and esteemed by his disciples. On the contrary, his disciples, not honoring and respecting him, don’t remain loyal to him. Rather, he’s reviled, and rightly so.’ Others said: ‘This bamboo-staffed ascetic Gosāla … Ajita of the hair blanket … Pakudha Kaccāyana … Sañjaya Belaṭṭhiputta … This Jain ascetic of the Ñātika clan leads an order and a community, and tutors a community. He’s a well-known and famous religious founder, deemed holy by many people. But he’s not honored, respected, revered, and venerated by his disciples. And his disciples, not honoring and respecting him, don’t remain loyal to him. Once it so happened that he was teaching an assembly of many hundreds. Then one of his disciples made a noise, “My good fellows, don’t ask the Jain Ñātika about that.

he indeed does notneso thatetaṁ knowsjānāti;
we indeed thismayametaṁ knowjānāma, usamhe this matteretamatthaṁ askpucchatha;
we indeed thismayametaṁ of the venerable onesbhavantānaṁ we will answerbyākarissāmā”ti.
once it happenedBhūtapubbaṁ the Jainnigaṇṭho Nāta·sonnāṭaputto armsbāhā having raisedpaggayha crying outkandanto notna got his waylabhati:
be quiet“appasaddā good fellowsbhonto behontu, do notmā good fellowsbhonto make a soundsaddamakattha.
not theseNete you venerable onesbhavante askpucchanti, meamhe theseete askpucchanti;
we indeed to thesemayametesaṁ we will answerbyākarissāmā”ti.
manyBahū indeedkho thenpana of the Jainnigaṇṭhassa Nāta·sonnāṭaputtassa disciplessāvakā doctrinevādaṁ having refutedāropetvā have leftapakkantā:
not“na youtvaṁ thisimaṁ teaching·trainingdhammavinayaṁ understandājānāsi, Iahaṁ thisimaṁ teaching·trainingdhammavinayaṁ understandājānāmi. whatKiṁ youtvaṁ thisimaṁ teaching·trainingdhammavinayaṁ you will understandājānissasi? practicing wrongMicchāpaṭipanno you aretvamasi. I amAhamasmi right·practicingsammāpaṭipanno. on topicSahitaṁ for meme not·on topicasahitaṁ for youte, first·to be saidpurevacanīyaṁ lastpacchā you saidavaca, last·to be saidpacchāvacanīyaṁ firstpure you saidavaca, what you have thought so much aboutadhiciṇṇaṁ of youte disprovedviparāvattaṁ, refutedāropito of youte doctrinevādo, you are refutedniggahitosi, go oncara doctrine·freeingvādappamokkhāya, get yourself outnibbeṭhehi orvā ifsace you canpahosī”ti.

He doesn’t know that. I know it. Ask me about it, and I’ll answer you.” Once it so happened that the Jain Ñātika didn’t get his way, though he called out with raised arms, “Be quiet, good fellows, don’t make a sound. They’re not asking you, they’re asking me! I’ll answer you!” Indeed, many of his disciples have left him after refuting his doctrine: “You don’t understand this teaching and training. I understand this teaching and training. What, you understand this teaching and training? You’re practicing wrong. I’m practicing right. I stay on topic, you don’t. You said last what you should have said first. You said first what you should have said last. What you’ve thought so much about has been disproved. Your doctrine is refuted. Go on, save your doctrine! You’re trapped; get yourself out of this—if you can!”

thusIti the Jainnigaṇṭho Ñātikanāṭaputto by his disciplessāvakānaṁ notna honoredsakkato notna respectedgarukato notna reveredmānito notna veneratedpūjito, notna andca on the contrarypana the Jainnigaṇṭhaṁ Ñātikanāṭaputtaṁ disciplessāvakā having honoredsakkatvā respectgaruṁ having madekatvā relying uponupanissāya they remainviharanti.
reviledAkkuṭṭho andca on the contrarypana the Jainnigaṇṭho Ñātikanāṭaputto and rightly sodhammakkosenā’ti.
someEkacce they said thusevamāhaṁsu:
this one too‘ayampi indeedkho asceticsamaṇo Gotamagotamo leads an ordersaṅghī andceva leads a communitygaṇī andca tutors a communitygaṇācariyo andca well-knownñāto famousyasassī religious foundertitthakaro deemed holysādhusammato by many peoplebahujanassa;
heso andca indeedkho by his disciplessāvakānaṁ honoredsakkato respectedgarukato reveredmānito veneratedpūjito, ascetic + andsamaṇañca on the contrarypana Gotamagotamaṁ disciplessāvakā having honoredsakkatvā respectgaruṁ having madekatvā relying uponupanissāya they remainviharanti.
once it so happenedBhūtapubbaṁ asceticsamaṇo Gotamagotamo of many hundredsanekasatāya to an assemblyparisāya dhammadhammaṁ taughtdesesi.
there oneTatraññataro of the asceticsamaṇassa Gotamagotamassa a disciplesāvako cleared their throatukkāsi.
and one of their companionsTamenāññataro spiritual companionsabrahmacārī with the kneejaṇṇukena nudgedghaṭṭesi:
hush“appasaddo venerableāyasmā let behotu, may the venerable one notmāyasmā make soundsaddamakāsi, teachersatthā ourno Blessed Onebhagavā dhammadhammaṁ is teachingdesesī”ti.

That’s how the Jain Ñātika is not honored, respected, revered, and venerated by his disciples. On the contrary, his disciples, not honoring and respecting him, don’t remain loyal to him. Rather, he’s reviled, and rightly so.’ Others said: ‘This ascetic Gotama leads an order and a community, and tutors a community. He’s a well-known and famous religious founder, deemed holy by many people. He’s honored, respected, revered, and venerated by his disciples. And his disciples, honoring and respecting him, remain loyal to him. Once it so happened that he was teaching an assembly of many hundreds. Then one of his disciples cleared their throat. And one of their spiritual companions nudged them with their knee, to indicate, “Hush, venerable, don’t make sound! Our teacher, the Blessed One, is teaching!”

in whichYasmiṁ timesamaye asceticsamaṇo Gotamagotamo many·hundredanekasatāya assemblyparisāya dhammadhammaṁ teachesdeseti, not·indeedneva in thattasmiṁ timesamaye of the asceticsamaṇassa Gotamagotamassa of the disciplessāvakānaṁ coughing·soundkhipitasaddo orvā there ishoti throat-clearing·soundukkāsitasaddo orvā.
that + thatTamenaṁ large·crowd·bodymahājanakāyo expectant·appearingpaccāsīsamānarūpo at the readypaccupaṭṭhito ishoti:
which“yaṁ to usno the Blessed Onebhagavā dhammadhammaṁ will teachbhāsissati thattaṁ weno will listen tosossāmā”ti.
just-as·indeedSeyyathāpi indeednāma a personpuriso at the crossroadscātummahāpathe dwarf·honeykhuddamadhuṁ pureanelakaṁ would press outpīḷeyya.
that + thatTamenaṁ large·crowd·bodymahājanakāyo expectant·appearingpaccāsīsamānarūpo at the readypaccupaṭṭhito would beassa.
thus·indeedEvameva in whichyasmiṁ timesamaye asceticsamaṇo Gotamagotamo many·hundredanekasatāya assemblyparisāya dhammadhammaṁ teachesdeseti, not·indeedneva in thattasmiṁ timesamaye of the asceticsamaṇassa Gotamagotamassa of the disciplessāvakānaṁ coughing·soundkhipitasaddo orvā there ishoti throat-clearing·soundukkāsitasaddo orvā.
that + thatTamenaṁ large·crowd·bodymahājanakāyo expectant·appearingpaccāsīsamānarūpo at the readypaccupaṭṭhito ishoti:
which“yaṁ to usno the Blessed Onebhagavā dhammadhammaṁ will teachbhāsissati thattaṁ weno will listen tosossāmā”ti.

While the ascetic Gotama is teaching an assembly of many hundreds, there is no sound of his disciples coughing or clearing their throats. That large crowd is poised expectantly at the ready, thinking, “Whatever the Buddha teaches, we shall listen to it.” It’s like when there’s a person at the crossroads pressing out pure dwarf-bee honey, and a large crowd is poised expectantly at the ready. In the same way, while the ascetic Gotama is teaching an assembly of many hundreds, there is no sound of his disciples coughing or clearing their throats. That large crowd is poised expectantly at the ready, thinking, “Whatever the Buddha teaches, we shall listen to it.”

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