Mahāsakuludāyisutta

Majjhima Nikāya 77

The Longer Discourse with Sakuludāyī · Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato, SuttaCentral

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“mā bhonto pūraṇaṁ kassapaṁ etamatthaṁ pucchittha;
neso etaṁ jānāti;
mayametaṁ jānāma, amhe etamatthaṁ pucchatha;
mayametaṁ bhavantānaṁ byākarissāmā”ti.
Bhūtapubbaṁ pūraṇo kassapo bāhā paggayha kandanto na labhati:
“appasaddā bhonto hontu, mā bhonto saddamakattha.
Nete, bhavante, pucchanti, amhe ete pucchanti;
mayametesaṁ byākarissāmā”ti.
Bahū kho pana pūraṇassa kassapassa sāvakā vādaṁ āropetvā apakkantā:
“na tvaṁ imaṁ dhammavinayaṁ ājānāsi, ahaṁ imaṁ dhammavinayaṁ ājānāmi, kiṁ tvaṁ imaṁ dhammavinayaṁ ājānissasi? Micchāpaṭipanno tvamasi, ahamasmi sammāpaṭipanno, sahitaṁ me, asahitaṁ te, purevacanīyaṁ pacchā avaca, pacchāvacanīyaṁ pure avaca, adhiciṇṇaṁ te viparāvattaṁ, āropito te vādo, niggahitosi, cara vādappamokkhāya, nibbeṭhehi vā sace pahosī”ti.

“My good fellows, don’t ask Pūraṇa Kassapa about that. He doesn’t know that. I know it. Ask me about it, and I’ll answer you.” Once it so happened that Pūraṇa Kassapa didn’t get his way, though he called out with raised arms, “Be quiet, good fellows, don’t make a sound. They’re not asking you, they’re asking me! I’ll answer you!” Indeed, many of his disciples have left him after refuting his doctrine: “You don’t understand this teaching and training. I understand this teaching and training. What, you understand this teaching and training? You’re practicing wrong. I’m practicing right. I stay on topic, you don’t. You said last what you should have said first. You said first what you should have said last. What you’ve thought so much about has been disproved. Your doctrine is refuted. Go on, save your doctrine! You’re trapped; get yourself out of this—if you can!”

Iti pūraṇo kassapo sāvakānaṁ na sakkato na garukato na mānito na pūjito, na ca pana pūraṇaṁ kassapaṁ sāvakā sakkatvā garuṁ katvā upanissāya viharanti.
Akkuṭṭho ca pana pūraṇo kassapo dhammakkosenā’ti.
Ekacce evamāhaṁsu:
‘ayampi kho makkhali gosālo …pe…
ajito kesakambalo …
pakudho kaccāyano …
sañjayo belaṭṭhaputto …
nigaṇṭho nāṭaputto saṅghī ceva gaṇī ca gaṇācariyo ca ñāto yasassī titthakaro sādhusammato bahujanassa;
so ca kho sāvakānaṁ na sakkato na garukato na mānito na pūjito, na ca pana nigaṇṭhaṁ nāṭaputtaṁ sāvakā sakkatvā garuṁ katvā upanissāya viharanti.
Bhūtapubbaṁ nigaṇṭho nāṭaputto anekasatāya parisāya dhammaṁ deseti.
Tatraññataro nigaṇṭhassa nāṭaputtassa sāvako saddamakāsi:
“mā bhonto nigaṇṭhaṁ nāṭaputtaṁ etamatthaṁ pucchittha;

That’s how Pūraṇa Kassapa is not honored, respected, revered, venerated, and esteemed by his disciples. On the contrary, his disciples, not honoring and respecting him, don’t remain loyal to him. Rather, he’s reviled, and rightly so.’ Others said: ‘This bamboo-staffed ascetic Gosāla … Ajita of the hair blanket … Pakudha Kaccāyana … Sañjaya Belaṭṭhiputta … This Jain ascetic of the Ñātika clan leads an order and a community, and tutors a community. He’s a well-known and famous religious founder, deemed holy by many people. But he’s not honored, respected, revered, and venerated by his disciples. And his disciples, not honoring and respecting him, don’t remain loyal to him. Once it so happened that he was teaching an assembly of many hundreds. Then one of his disciples made a noise, “My good fellows, don’t ask the Jain Ñātika about that.

neso etaṁ jānāti;
mayametaṁ jānāma, amhe etamatthaṁ pucchatha;
mayametaṁ bhavantānaṁ byākarissāmā”ti.
Bhūtapubbaṁ nigaṇṭho nāṭaputto bāhā paggayha kandanto na labhati:
“appasaddā bhonto hontu, mā bhonto saddamakattha.
Nete bhavante pucchanti, amhe ete pucchanti;
mayametesaṁ byākarissāmā”ti.
Bahū kho pana nigaṇṭhassa nāṭaputtassa sāvakā vādaṁ āropetvā apakkantā:
“na tvaṁ imaṁ dhammavinayaṁ ājānāsi, ahaṁ imaṁ dhammavinayaṁ ājānāmi. Kiṁ tvaṁ imaṁ dhammavinayaṁ ājānissasi? Micchāpaṭipanno tvamasi. Ahamasmi sammāpaṭipanno. Sahitaṁ me asahitaṁ te, purevacanīyaṁ pacchā avaca, pacchāvacanīyaṁ pure avaca, adhiciṇṇaṁ te viparāvattaṁ, āropito te vādo, niggahitosi, cara vādappamokkhāya, nibbeṭhehi vā sace pahosī”ti.

He doesn’t know that. I know it. Ask me about it, and I’ll answer you.” Once it so happened that the Jain Ñātika didn’t get his way, though he called out with raised arms, “Be quiet, good fellows, don’t make a sound. They’re not asking you, they’re asking me! I’ll answer you!” Indeed, many of his disciples have left him after refuting his doctrine: “You don’t understand this teaching and training. I understand this teaching and training. What, you understand this teaching and training? You’re practicing wrong. I’m practicing right. I stay on topic, you don’t. You said last what you should have said first. You said first what you should have said last. What you’ve thought so much about has been disproved. Your doctrine is refuted. Go on, save your doctrine! You’re trapped; get yourself out of this—if you can!”

Iti nigaṇṭho nāṭaputto sāvakānaṁ na sakkato na garukato na mānito na pūjito, na ca pana nigaṇṭhaṁ nāṭaputtaṁ sāvakā sakkatvā garuṁ katvā upanissāya viharanti.
Akkuṭṭho ca pana nigaṇṭho nāṭaputto dhammakkosenā’ti.
Ekacce evamāhaṁsu:
‘ayampi kho samaṇo gotamo saṅghī ceva gaṇī ca gaṇācariyo ca ñāto yasassī titthakaro sādhusammato bahujanassa;
so ca kho sāvakānaṁ sakkato garukato mānito pūjito, samaṇañca pana gotamaṁ sāvakā sakkatvā garuṁ katvā upanissāya viharanti.
Bhūtapubbaṁ samaṇo gotamo anekasatāya parisāya dhammaṁ desesi.
Tatraññataro samaṇassa gotamassa sāvako ukkāsi.
Tamenāññataro sabrahmacārī jaṇṇukena ghaṭṭesi:
“appasaddo āyasmā hotu, māyasmā saddamakāsi, satthā no bhagavā dhammaṁ desesī”ti.

That’s how the Jain Ñātika is not honored, respected, revered, and venerated by his disciples. On the contrary, his disciples, not honoring and respecting him, don’t remain loyal to him. Rather, he’s reviled, and rightly so.’ Others said: ‘This ascetic Gotama leads an order and a community, and tutors a community. He’s a well-known and famous religious founder, deemed holy by many people. He’s honored, respected, revered, and venerated by his disciples. And his disciples, honoring and respecting him, remain loyal to him. Once it so happened that he was teaching an assembly of many hundreds. Then one of his disciples cleared their throat. And one of their spiritual companions nudged them with their knee, to indicate, “Hush, venerable, don’t make sound! Our teacher, the Blessed One, is teaching!”

Yasmiṁ samaye samaṇo gotamo anekasatāya parisāya dhammaṁ deseti, neva tasmiṁ samaye samaṇassa gotamassa sāvakānaṁ khipitasaddo vā hoti ukkāsitasaddo vā.
Tamenaṁ mahājanakāyo paccāsīsamānarūpo paccupaṭṭhito hoti:
“yaṁ no bhagavā dhammaṁ bhāsissati taṁ no sossāmā”ti.
Seyyathāpi nāma puriso cātummahāpathe khuddamadhuṁ anelakaṁ pīḷeyya.
Tamenaṁ mahājanakāyo paccāsīsamānarūpo paccupaṭṭhito assa.
Evameva yasmiṁ samaye samaṇo gotamo anekasatāya parisāya dhammaṁ deseti, neva tasmiṁ samaye samaṇassa gotamassa sāvakānaṁ khipitasaddo vā hoti ukkāsitasaddo vā.
Tamenaṁ mahājanakāyo paccāsīsamānarūpo paccupaṭṭhito hoti:
“yaṁ no bhagavā dhammaṁ bhāsissati taṁ no sossāmā”ti.

While the ascetic Gotama is teaching an assembly of many hundreds, there is no sound of his disciples coughing or clearing their throats. That large crowd is poised expectantly at the ready, thinking, “Whatever the Buddha teaches, we shall listen to it.” It’s like when there’s a person at the crossroads pressing out pure dwarf-bee honey, and a large crowd is poised expectantly at the ready. In the same way, while the ascetic Gotama is teaching an assembly of many hundreds, there is no sound of his disciples coughing or clearing their throats. That large crowd is poised expectantly at the ready, thinking, “Whatever the Buddha teaches, we shall listen to it.”

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