With Vekhanasa · Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato, SuttaCentral
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⚠ Glossing did not finish. The original text is shown below.
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yo vā rattandhakāratimisāya mahāaggikkhandho, yā vā rattiyā paccūsasamayaṁ viddhe vigatavalāhake deve osadhitārakā, imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti? “Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, rattiyā paccūsasamayaṁ viddhe vigatavalāhake deve osadhitārakā, ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti.
“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: a great mass of fire in the dark of night, or the morning star in the clear and cloudless heavens at the crack of dawn?” “The morning star in the clear and cloudless heavens at the crack of dawn.”
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yā vā rattiyā paccūsasamayaṁ viddhe vigatavalāhake deve osadhitārakā, yo vā tadahuposathe pannarase viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido aḍḍharattasamayaṁ cando, imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti? “Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, tadahuposathe pannarase viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido aḍḍharattasamayaṁ cando, ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti.
“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: the morning star in the clear and cloudless heavens at the crack of dawn, or the full moon at midnight in the clear and cloudless heavens on the fifteenth day sabbath?” “The full moon at midnight in the clear and cloudless heavens on the fifteenth day sabbath.”
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yo vā tadahuposathe pannarase viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido aḍḍharattasamayaṁ cando, yo vā vassānaṁ pacchime māse saradasamaye viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido majjhanhikasamayaṁ sūriyo, imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti? “Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, vassānaṁ pacchime māse saradasamaye viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido majjhanhikasamayaṁ sūriyo—ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti.
“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: the full moon at midnight in the clear and cloudless heavens on the fifteenth day sabbath, or the sun at midday in the clear and cloudless heavens in the last month of the rainy season, in autumn?” “The sun at midday in the clear and cloudless heavens in the last month of the rainy season, in autumn.”
“Ato kho te, kaccāna, bahū hi bahutarā devā ye imesaṁ candimasūriyānaṁ ābhā nānubhonti, tyāhaṁ pajānāmi. Atha ca panāhaṁ na vadāmi: ‘yasmā vaṇṇā añño vaṇṇo uttaritaro ca paṇītataro ca natthī’ti. Atha ca pana tvaṁ, kaccāna, ‘yvāyaṁ vaṇṇo kiminā khajjopanakena nihīnataro ca patikiṭṭhataro ca so paramo vaṇṇo’ti vadesi; tañca vaṇṇaṁ na paññapesi.
“Beyond this, Kaccāna, I know very many gods on whom the luminosity of the sun and moon makes no impression. Nevertheless, I do not say: ‘The splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.’ But of the splendor inferior to a firefly you say, ‘This is the ultimate splendor.’ And you don’t describe that splendor.
Pañca kho ime, kaccāna, kāmaguṇā. Katame pañca? Cakkhuviññeyyā rūpā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṁhitā rajanīyā, sotaviññeyyā saddā …pe… ghānaviññeyyā gandhā … jivhāviññeyyā rasā … kāyaviññeyyā phoṭṭhabbā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṁhitā rajanīyā— ime kho, kaccāna, pañca kāmaguṇā.
Kaccāna, there are these five kinds of sensual stimulation. What five? Sights known by the eye, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. Sounds known by the ear … Smells known by the nose … Tastes known by the tongue … Touches known by the body, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. These are the five kinds of sensual stimulation.
Yaṁ kho, kaccāna, ime pañca kāmaguṇe paṭicca uppajjati sukhaṁ somanassaṁ idaṁ vuccati kāmasukhaṁ. Iti kāmehi kāmasukhaṁ, kāmasukhā kāmaggasukhaṁ tattha aggamakkhāyatī”ti.
The pleasure and happiness that arises from these five kinds of sensual stimulation is called sensual pleasure. ‘From the senses comes sensual pleasure. Beyond sensual pleasure is the pleasure that surmounts the sensual, which is said to be the best of these.’”
Evaṁ vutte, vekhanaso paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “acchariyaṁ, bho gotama, abbhutaṁ, bho gotama. Yāva subhāsitañcidaṁ bhotā gotamena: ‘kāmehi kāmasukhaṁ, kāmasukhā kāmaggasukhaṁ tattha aggamakkhāyatī’ti. ‘Kāmehi, bho gotama, kāmasukhaṁ, kāmasukhā kāmaggasukhaṁ, tattha aggamakkhāyatī’”ti “dujjānaṁ kho etaṁ, kaccāna, tayā aññadiṭṭhikena aññakhantikena aññarucikena aññatrayogena aññatrācariyakena— kāmā vā kāmasukhaṁ vā kāmaggasukhaṁ vā. Ye kho te, kaccāna, bhikkhū arahanto khīṇāsavā vusitavanto katakaraṇīyā ohitabhārā anuppattasadatthā parikkhīṇabhavasaṁyojanā sammadaññāvimuttā te kho etaṁ jāneyyuṁ— kāmā vā kāmasukhaṁ vā kāmaggasukhaṁ vā”ti.
When he said this, Vekhanasa said to the Buddha, “It’s incredible, worthy Gotama, it’s amazing! How well said this was by the worthy Gotama! ‘From the senses comes sensual pleasure. Beyond sensual pleasure is the pleasure that surmounts the sensual, which is said to be the best of these.’ Worthy Gotama, from the senses comes sensual pleasure. Beyond sensual pleasure is the pleasure that surmounts the sensual, which is said to be the best of these.” “Kaccāna, since you have a different view, creed, and belief, and another discipline and denomination, it’s hard for you to understand the senses, sensual pleasure, and the pleasure that surmounts the sensual. There are mendicants who are perfected, who have ended the defilements, completed the spiritual journey, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, achieved their heart’s goal, utterly ended the fetter of continued existence, and are rightly freed through enlightenment. They can understand the senses, sensual pleasure, and the pleasure that surmounts the sensual.”
Evaṁ vutte, vekhanaso paribbājako kupito anattamano bhagavantaṁyeva khuṁsento bhagavantaṁyeva vambhento bhagavantaṁyeva vadamāno: “samaṇo gotamo pāpito bhavissatī”ti bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “evameva panidhekacce samaṇabrāhmaṇā ajānantā pubbantaṁ, apassantā aparantaṁ atha ca pana ‘khīṇā jāti, vusitaṁ brahmacariyaṁ, kataṁ karaṇīyaṁ, nāparaṁ itthattāyāti—pajānāmā’ti—paṭijānanti. Tesamidaṁ bhāsitaṁ hassakaṁyeva sampajjati, nāmakaṁyeva sampajjati, rittakaṁyeva sampajjati, tucchakaṁyeva sampajjatī”ti.
When he said this, Vekhanasa became angry and upset. He even attacked and badmouthed the Buddha himself, saying, “The ascetic Gotama will be worsted!” He said to the Buddha, “This is exactly what happens with some ascetics and brahmins. Not knowing the first beginning or seeing the final end, they nevertheless claim: ‘We understand: “Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is nothing further for this place.”’ Their statement turns out to be a joke—mere words, vacuous and hollow.”
“Ye kho te, kaccāna, samaṇabrāhmaṇā ajānantā pubbantaṁ, apassantā aparantaṁ, ‘khīṇā jāti, vusitaṁ brahmacariyaṁ, kataṁ karaṇīyaṁ, nāparaṁ itthattāyāti—pajānāmā’ti—paṭijānanti; tesaṁ soyeva sahadhammiko niggaho hoti. Api ca, kaccāna, tiṭṭhatu pubbanto, tiṭṭhatu aparanto. Etu viññū puriso asaṭho amāyāvī ujujātiko, ahamanusāsāmi ahaṁ dhammaṁ desemi. Yathānusiṭṭhaṁ tathā paṭipajjamāno nacirasseva sāmaññeva ñassati sāmaṁ dakkhiti— evaṁ kira sammā bandhanā vippamokkho hoti, yadidaṁ avijjā bandhanā. Seyyathāpi, kaccāna, daharo kumāro mando uttānaseyyako kaṇṭhapañcamehi bandhanehi baddho assa suttabandhanehi; tassa vuddhimanvāya indriyānaṁ paripākamanvāya tāni bandhanāni mucceyyuṁ; so mokkhomhīti kho jāneyya no ca bandhanaṁ. Evameva kho, kaccāna, etu viññū puriso asaṭho amāyāvī ujujātiko, ahamanusāsāmi, ahaṁ dhammaṁ desemi;
“Kaccāna, there are some ascetics and brahmins who, not knowing the first beginning or seeing the final end, nevertheless claim: ‘We understand: “Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is nothing further for this place.”’ There is a legitimate refutation of them. Nevertheless, Kaccāna, leave aside the first beginning and the final end. Let a sensible person come—neither devious nor deceitful, a person of integrity. I teach and instruct them. Practicing as instructed they will soon know and see for themselves, ‘So this is how to be rightly released from the bond, that is, the bond of ignorance.’ Suppose there was a little baby bound with swaddling up to the neck. As they grow up and their senses mature, they’re accordingly released from those bonds. They’d know ‘I’m released,’ and there would be no more bonds. In the same way, let a sensible person come—neither devious nor deceitful, a person of integrity. I teach and instruct them.
yathānusiṭṭhaṁ tathā paṭipajjamāno nacirasseva sāmaññeva ñassati, sāmaṁ dakkhiti: ‘evaṁ kira sammā bandhanā vippamokkho hoti, yadidaṁ avijjā bandhanā’”ti.
Practicing as instructed they will soon know and see for themselves, ‘So this is how to be rightly released from the bond, that is, the bond of ignorance.’”
Evaṁ vutte, vekhanaso paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “abhikkantaṁ, bho gotama …pe… upāsakaṁ maṁ bhavaṁ gotamo dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan”ti. Vekhanasasuttaṁ niṭṭhitaṁ dasamaṁ. Paribbājakavaggo niṭṭhito tatiyo.
When he said this, Vekhanasa said to the Buddha, “Excellent, worthy Gotama! … From this day forth, may the worthy Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”
Tassuddānaṁ Puṇḍarī aggisaha kathināmo, Dīghanakho puna bhāradvājagotto; Sandakaudāyimuṇḍikaputto, Maṇiko tathākaccāno varavaggo.
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