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Majjhima Nikāya 80

Vekhanasasutta

With Vekhanasa · Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato, SuttaCentral

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that“Taṁ whatkiṁ you thinkmaññasi, Kaccānakaccāna,
whichyo orvā in the dark of nightrattandhakāratimisāya a great mass of firemahāaggikkhandho, whichyā orvā at nightrattiyā at the crack of dawnpaccūsasamayaṁ in the clearviddhe and cloudlessvigatavalāhake in the heavensdeve the morning starosadhitārakā, of theseimesaṁ of bothubhinnaṁ of splendorsvaṇṇānaṁ whichkatamo splendorvaṇṇo finerabhikkantataro andca more excellentpaṇītataro and?'cā”ti?
that which“Yvāyaṁ, sirbho Gotamagotama, at nightrattiyā at the crack of dawnpaccūsasamayaṁ in the clearviddhe and cloudlessvigatavalāhake in the heavensdeve the morning starosadhitārakā, thisayaṁ of theseimesaṁ of bothubhinnaṁ of splendorsvaṇṇānaṁ finerabhikkantataro andca more excellentpaṇītataro and.'cā”ti.

“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: a great mass of fire in the dark of night, or the morning star in the clear and cloudless heavens at the crack of dawn?” “The morning star in the clear and cloudless heavens at the crack of dawn.”

that“Taṁ whatkiṁ you thinkmaññasi, Kaccānakaccāna,
whichyā orvā of the nightrattiyā at the time of dawnpaccūsasamayaṁ in the clearviddhe in the cloudlessvigatavalāhake in the heavensdeve the morning starosadhitārakā, whichyo orvā on that day, the sabbathtadahuposathe on the fifteenthpannarase in the clearviddhe in the cloudlessvigatavalāhake in the heavensdeve at midnightabhido at the time of midnightaḍḍharattasamayaṁ the mooncando, of theseimesaṁ of bothubhinnaṁ of the splendorsvaṇṇānaṁ whichkatamo splendorvaṇṇo more exquisiteabhikkantataro andca more excellentpaṇītataro andcā”ti?
that which“Yvāyaṁ, sirbho Gotamagotama, on that day, the sabbathtadahuposathe on the fifteenthpannarase in the clearviddhe in the cloudlessvigatavalāhake in the heavensdeve at midnightabhido at the time of midnightaḍḍharattasamayaṁ the mooncando, thisayaṁ of theseimesaṁ of bothubhinnaṁ of the splendorsvaṇṇānaṁ more exquisiteabhikkantataro andca more excellentpaṇītataro andcā”ti.

“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: the morning star in the clear and cloudless heavens at the crack of dawn, or the full moon at midnight in the clear and cloudless heavens on the fifteenth day sabbath?” “The full moon at midnight in the clear and cloudless heavens on the fifteenth day sabbath.”

that“Taṁ what?kiṁ you thinkmaññasi, Kaccānakaccāna,
whichyo orvā on that day, the sabbathtadahuposathe on the fifteenthpannarase clearviddhe cloudlessvigatavalāhake in the heavensdeve at midnightabhido at the midnight houraḍḍharattasamayaṁ the mooncando, whichyo orvā of the rainy seasonvassānaṁ in the lastpacchime monthmāse in autumnsaradasamaye clearviddhe cloudlessvigatavalāhake in the heavensdeve at middayabhido at the midday hourmajjhanhikasamayaṁ the sunsūriyo, of theseimesaṁ of the twoubhinnaṁ of splendorsvaṇṇānaṁ whichkatamo splendorvaṇṇo finerabhikkantataro andca more excellentpaṇītataro and?"cā”ti?
that which“Yvāyaṁ, sirbho Gotamagotama, of the rainy seasonvassānaṁ in the lastpacchime monthmāse in autumnsaradasamaye clearviddhe cloudlessvigatavalāhake in the heavensdeve at middayabhido at the midday hourmajjhanhikasamayaṁ the sun—thissūriyo—ayaṁ of theseimesaṁ of the twoubhinnaṁ of splendorsvaṇṇānaṁ finerabhikkantataro andca more excellentpaṇītataro and."cā”ti.

“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: the full moon at midnight in the clear and cloudless heavens on the fifteenth day sabbath, or the sun at midday in the clear and cloudless heavens in the last month of the rainy season, in autumn?” “The sun at midday in the clear and cloudless heavens in the last month of the rainy season, in autumn.”

beyond this“Ato indeedkho to youte, Kaccānakaccāna, manybahū forhi very manybahutarā godsdevā whoye of theseimesaṁ of sun and mooncandimasūriyānaṁ luminosityābhā do not measure up tonānubhonti, that Ityāhaṁ I knowpajānāmi.
neverthelessAtha andca but Ipanāhaṁ notna I sayvadāmi:
compared to which‘yasmā splendorvaṇṇā otherañño splendorvaṇṇo fineruttaritaro andca more excellentpaṇītataro andca there is notnatthī’ti.
neverthelessAtha andca butpana youtvaṁ, Kaccānakaccāna, which this‘yvāyaṁ splendorvaṇṇo by a what-notkiminā by a fireflykhajjopanakena inferiornihīnataro andca more lowlypatikiṭṭhataro andca thisso ultimateparamo splendorvaṇṇo’ti you sayvadesi; and thattañca splendorvaṇṇaṁ notna you describepaññapesi.

“Beyond this, Kaccāna, I know very many gods on whom the luminosity of the sun and moon makes no impression. Nevertheless, I do not say: ‘The splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.’ But of the splendor inferior to a firefly you say, ‘This is the ultimate splendor.’ And you don’t describe that splendor.

fivePañca indeedkho theseime, Kaccānakaccāna, kinds of sensual stimulationkāmaguṇā.
whatKatame fivepañca?
known by the eyeCakkhuviññeyyā sightsrūpā likableiṭṭhā desirablekantā agreeablemanāpā pleasantpiyarūpā sensualkāmūpasaṁhitā arousingrajanīyā,
known by the earsotaviññeyyā soundssaddā …pe……pe…
known by the noseghānaviññeyyā smellsgandhā ……
known by the tonguejivhāviññeyyā tastesrasā ……
known by the bodykāyaviññeyyā touchesphoṭṭhabbā likableiṭṭhā desirablekantā agreeablemanāpā pleasantpiyarūpā sensualkāmūpasaṁhitā arousingrajanīyā—
theseime indeedkho, Kaccānakaccāna, fivepañca kinds of sensual stimulationkāmaguṇā.

Kaccāna, there are these five kinds of sensual stimulation. What five? Sights known by the eye, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. Sounds known by the ear … Smells known by the nose … Tastes known by the tongue … Touches known by the body, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. These are the five kinds of sensual stimulation.

thatYaṁ indeedkho, Kaccānakaccāna, theseime fivepañca sensual stimulationkāmaguṇe dependent onpaṭicca arisesuppajjati pleasuresukhaṁ happinesssomanassaṁ thisidaṁ is calledvuccati sensual pleasure.kāmasukhaṁ.
thusIti from the senseskāmehi sensual pleasure,kāmasukhaṁ, from sensual pleasurekāmasukhā the pleasure that surmounts the sensualkāmaggasukhaṁ theretattha is said to be the best of these.aggamakkhāyatī”ti.

The pleasure and happiness that arises from these five kinds of sensual stimulation is called sensual pleasure. ‘From the senses comes sensual pleasure. Beyond sensual pleasure is the pleasure that surmounts the sensual, which is said to be the best of these.’”

thusEvaṁ when saidvutte, Vekhanasavekhanaso wandererparibbājako to the Blessed Onebhagavantaṁ said thisetadavoca:
incredible“acchariyaṁ, worthybho Gotamagotama, amazingabbhutaṁ, worthybho Gotamagotama.
howYāva well said thissubhāsitañcidaṁ by the worthybhotā Gotamagotamena:
from the senses‘kāmehi sensual pleasurekāmasukhaṁ, than sensual pleasurekāmasukhā the pleasure that surmounts the sensualkāmaggasukhaṁ theretattha is said to be bestaggamakkhāyatī’ti.
from the senses‘Kāmehi, worthybho Gotamagotama, sensual pleasurekāmasukhaṁ, than sensual pleasurekāmasukhā the pleasure that surmounts the sensualkāmaggasukhaṁ, theretattha is said to be bestaggamakkhāyatī’”ti
hard to understand“dujjānaṁ indeedkho thisetaṁ, Kaccānakaccāna, by youtayā with a different viewaññadiṭṭhikena with a different creedaññakhantikena with a different beliefaññarucikena with another disciplineaññatrayogena with another denominationaññatrācariyakena—
the senseskāmā orvā sensual pleasurekāmasukhaṁ orvā the pleasure that surmounts the sensualkāmaggasukhaṁ orvā.
thoseYe indeedkho thosete, Kaccānakaccāna, mendicantsbhikkhū perfectedarahanto with defilements endedkhīṇāsavā completed the spiritual journeyvusitavanto done what had to be donekatakaraṇīyā laid down the burdenohitabhārā achieved their heart's goalanuppattasadatthā utterly ended the fetter of continued existenceparikkhīṇabhavasaṁyojanā rightly freed through enlightenmentsammadaññāvimuttā theyte indeedkho thisetaṁ would understandjāneyyuṁ—
the senseskāmā orvā sensual pleasurekāmasukhaṁ orvā the pleasure that surmounts the sensualkāmaggasukhaṁ orvā”ti.

When he said this, Vekhanasa said to the Buddha, “It’s incredible, worthy Gotama, it’s amazing! How well said this was by the worthy Gotama! ‘From the senses comes sensual pleasure. Beyond sensual pleasure is the pleasure that surmounts the sensual, which is said to be the best of these.’ Worthy Gotama, from the senses comes sensual pleasure. Beyond sensual pleasure is the pleasure that surmounts the sensual, which is said to be the best of these.” “Kaccāna, since you have a different view, creed, and belief, and another discipline and denomination, it’s hard for you to understand the senses, sensual pleasure, and the pleasure that surmounts the sensual. There are mendicants who are perfected, who have ended the defilements, completed the spiritual journey, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, achieved their heart’s goal, utterly ended the fetter of continued existence, and are rightly freed through enlightenment. They can understand the senses, sensual pleasure, and the pleasure that surmounts the sensual.”

thusEvaṁ when saidvutte, Vekhanasavekhanaso wandererparibbājako angrykupito upsetanattamano the Buddha himselfbhagavantaṁyeva attackingkhuṁsento the Buddha himselfbhagavantaṁyeva badmouthingvambhento the Buddha himselfbhagavantaṁyeva sayingvadamāno:
ascetic“samaṇo Gotamagotamo worstedpāpito will bebhavissatī”ti to the Buddhabhagavantaṁ said thisetadavoca:
just so“evameva but here somepanidhekacce ascetics and brahminssamaṇabrāhmaṇā not knowingajānantā the first beginningpubbantaṁ, not seeingapassantā the final endaparantaṁ thenatha andca butpana
destroyed‘khīṇā rebirthjāti, completedvusitaṁ the spiritual journeybrahmacariyaṁ, donekataṁ what had to be donekaraṇīyaṁ, there is nothing furthernāparaṁ for this placeitthattāyāti—pajānāmā’ti—paṭijānanti.
their statementTesamidaṁ statementbhāsitaṁ a jokehassakaṁyeva turns outsampajjati, mere wordsnāmakaṁyeva turns outsampajjati, vacuousrittakaṁyeva turns outsampajjati, hollowtucchakaṁyeva turns outsampajjatī”ti.

When he said this, Vekhanasa became angry and upset. He even attacked and badmouthed the Buddha himself, saying, “The ascetic Gotama will be worsted!” He said to the Buddha, “This is exactly what happens with some ascetics and brahmins. Not knowing the first beginning or seeing the final end, they nevertheless claim: ‘We understand: “Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is nothing further for this place.”’ Their statement turns out to be a joke—mere words, vacuous and hollow.”

which“Ye indeedkho thosete, Kaccānakaccāna, ascetics and brahminssamaṇabrāhmaṇā not knowingajānantā the first beginningpubbantaṁ, not seeingapassantā the final endaparantaṁ,
ended‘khīṇā rebirthjāti, completedvusitaṁ the spiritual journeybrahmacariyaṁ, donekataṁ what had to be donekaraṇīyaṁ, nothing furthernāparaṁ for this place—we understand—claimitthattāyāti—pajānāmā’ti—paṭijānanti;
for themtesaṁ that verysoyeva legitimatesahadhammiko refutationniggaho there ishoti.
neverthelessApi andca, Kaccānakaccāna, leave asidetiṭṭhatu the first beginningpubbanto, leave asidetiṭṭhatu the final endaparanto.
let comeEtu sensibleviññū personpuriso neither deviousasaṭho nor deceitfulamāyāvī a person of integrityujujātiko, I teachahamanusāsāmi Iahaṁ dhammadhammaṁ I instructdesemi.
as instructedYathānusiṭṭhaṁ accordinglytathā practicingpaṭipajjamāno soonnacirasseva for themselvessāmaññeva will knowñassati for themselvessāmaṁ will seedakkhiti—
soevaṁ indeedkira rightlysammā from the bondbandhanā releasevippamokkho there ishoti, that isyadidaṁ ignoranceavijjā from the bondbandhanā.
supposeSeyyathāpi, Kaccānakaccāna, littledaharo babykumāro tendermando lying on its backuttānaseyyako up to the neckkaṇṭhapañcamehi with bondsbandhanehi boundbaddho would beassa with swaddlingsuttabandhanehi;
for themtassa as they grow upvuddhimanvāya of the sensesindriyānaṁ as they matureparipākamanvāya thosetāni bondsbandhanāni would be releasedmucceyyuṁ;
theyso I'm releasedmokkhomhīti indeedkho would knowjāneyya and there would be nono andca more bondsbandhanaṁ.
in the same wayEvameva indeedkho, Kaccānakaccāna, let comeetu sensibleviññū personpuriso neither deviousasaṭho nor deceitfulamāyāvī a person of integrityujujātiko, I teachahamanusāsāmi, Iahaṁ dhammadhammaṁ I instructdesemi;

“Kaccāna, there are some ascetics and brahmins who, not knowing the first beginning or seeing the final end, nevertheless claim: ‘We understand: “Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is nothing further for this place.”’ There is a legitimate refutation of them. Nevertheless, Kaccāna, leave aside the first beginning and the final end. Let a sensible person come—neither devious nor deceitful, a person of integrity. I teach and instruct them. Practicing as instructed they will soon know and see for themselves, ‘So this is how to be rightly released from the bond, that is, the bond of ignorance.’ Suppose there was a little baby bound with swaddling up to the neck. As they grow up and their senses mature, they’re accordingly released from those bonds. They’d know ‘I’m released,’ and there would be no more bonds. In the same way, let a sensible person come—neither devious nor deceitful, a person of integrity. I teach and instruct them.

as instructedyathānusiṭṭhaṁ sotathā practicingpaṭipajjamāno before longnacirasseva for themselvessāmaññeva will knowñassati, for themselvessāmaṁ will seedakkhiti:
thus‘evaṁ indeedkira rightlysammā from the bondbandhanā releasevippamokkho ishoti, that isyadidaṁ ignoranceavijjā from the bondbandhanā’”ti.

Practicing as instructed they will soon know and see for themselves, ‘So this is how to be rightly released from the bond, that is, the bond of ignorance.’”

thusEvaṁ when saidvutte, Vekhanasavekhanaso wandererparibbājako to the Blessed Onebhagavantaṁ said thisetadavoca:
excellent“abhikkantaṁ, worthybho Gotamagotama …pe……pe…
lay followerupāsakaṁ memaṁ worthybhavaṁ Gotamagotamo may he rememberdhāretu from this day forthajjatagge for lifepāṇupetaṁ refugesaraṇaṁ gonegatan”ti.
Vekhanasa SuttaVekhanasasuttaṁ finishedniṭṭhitaṁ tenthdasamaṁ.
Wanderers ChapterParibbājakavaggo finishedniṭṭhito thirdtatiyo.

When he said this, Vekhanasa said to the Buddha, “Excellent, worthy Gotama! … From this day forth, may the worthy Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”

this is its summaryTassuddānaṁ
PuṇḍarīPuṇḍarī Aggisahaaggisaha named Kathinkathināmo,
DīghanakhaDīghanakho againpuna of the Bhāradvāja clanbhāradvājagotto;
Sandaka, Udāyi, Muṇḍika's sonSandakaudāyimuṇḍikaputto,
MaṇikaMaṇiko and likewise Kaccānatathākaccāno the excellent chaptervaravaggo.

This is its summary: Puṇḍarī, Aggisaha, the one named Kathin, Dīghanakha, again the Bhāradvāja clansman, Sandaka, Udāyi, Muṇḍika's son, Maṇika, and likewise Kaccāna — the excellent chapter.

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