Kaṇṇakatthalasutta

Majjhima Nikāya 90

At Kaṇṇakatthala · Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato, SuttaCentral

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“Heturūpaṁ, bhante, bhagavā āha; saheturūpaṁ, bhante, bhagavā āha.
Cattārome, bhante, vaṇṇā—
khattiyā, brāhmaṇā, vessā, suddā.
Te cassu imehi pañcahi padhāniyaṅgehi samannāgatā te cassu sammappadhānā;
ettha pana nesaṁ, bhante, siyā viseso siyā nānākaraṇan”ti?
“Ettha kho nesāhaṁ, mahārāja, na kiñci nānākaraṇaṁ vadāmi—yadidaṁ vimuttiyā vimuttiṁ.
Seyyathāpi, mahārāja, puriso sukkhaṁ sākakaṭṭhaṁ ādāya aggiṁ abhinibbatteyya, tejo pātukareyya;
athāparo puriso sukkhaṁ sālakaṭṭhaṁ ādāya aggiṁ abhinibbatteyya, tejo pātukareyya;
athāparo puriso sukkhaṁ ambakaṭṭhaṁ ādāya aggiṁ abhinibbatteyya, tejo pātukareyya;
athāparo puriso sukkhaṁ udumbarakaṭṭhaṁ ādāya aggiṁ abhinibbatteyya, tejo pātukareyya.
Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, mahārāja,

“What the Buddha says appears reasonable. Sir, there are these four classes: aristocrats, brahmins, peasants, and workers. If they had these five factors that support meditation, and if they practiced rightly, would there be any difference between them?” “In that case, I say that there is no difference between the freedom of one and the freedom of the other. Suppose a person took dry teak wood and lit a fire and produced heat. Then another person did the same using sāl wood, another used mango wood, while another used wood of the cluster fig. What do you think, Great King?

siyā nu kho tesaṁ aggīnaṁ nānādāruto abhinibbattānaṁ kiñci nānākaraṇaṁ acciyā vā acciṁ, vaṇṇena vā vaṇṇaṁ, ābhāya vā ābhan”ti?
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“Evameva kho, mahārāja, yaṁ taṁ tejaṁ vīriyā nimmathitaṁ padhānābhinibbattaṁ, nāhaṁ tattha kiñci nānākaraṇaṁ vadāmi—yadidaṁ vimuttiyā vimuttin”ti.

Would there be any difference between the fires produced by these different kinds of wood, that is, in the flame, color, or luminosity?” “No, sir.” “In the same way, when fire has been churned by energy and produced by effort, I say that there is no difference between the freedom of one and the freedom of the other.”

“Heturūpaṁ, bhante, bhagavā āha; saheturūpaṁ, bhante, bhagavā āha.
Kiṁ pana, bhante, atthi devā”ti?
“Kiṁ pana tvaṁ, mahārāja, evaṁ vadesi:
‘kiṁ pana, bhante, atthi devā’”ti?
“Yadi vā te, bhante, devā āgantāro itthattaṁ yadi vā anāgantāro itthattaṁ”?
“Ye te, mahārāja, devā sabyābajjhā te devā āgantāro itthattaṁ, ye te devā abyābajjhā te devā anāgantāro itthattan”ti.

“What the Buddha says appears reasonable. But sir, do gods survive?” “But what exactly are you asking?” “Whether those gods come back to this place or not.” “Those gods who are afflicted come back to this place, but those who are unafflicted do not come back.”

Evaṁ vutte, viṭaṭūbho senāpati bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:
“ye te, bhante, devā sabyābajjhā āgantāro itthattaṁ te devā, ye te devā abyābajjhā anāgantāro itthattaṁ te deve tamhā ṭhānā cāvessanti vā pabbājessanti vā”ti?
Atha kho āyasmato ānandassa etadahosi:
“ayaṁ kho viṭaṭūbho senāpati rañño pasenadissa kosalassa putto;
ahaṁ bhagavato putto.
Ayaṁ kho kālo yaṁ putto puttena manteyyā”ti.
Atha kho āyasmā ānando viṭaṭūbhaṁ senāpatiṁ āmantesi:
“tena hi, senāpati, taññevettha paṭipucchissāmi; yathā te khameyya tathā naṁ byākareyyāsi.
Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, senāpati,

When he said this, General Viḍūḍabha said to the Buddha, “Sir, will the gods who are afflicted topple or expel from their place the gods who are unafflicted?” Then Venerable Ānanda thought, “This General Viḍūḍabha is King Pasenadi’s son, and I am the Buddha’s son. Now is the time for one son to confer with another.” So Ānanda addressed General Viḍūḍabha, “Well then, general, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like. What do you think, general?

yāvatā rañño pasenadissa kosalassa vijitaṁ yattha ca rājā pasenadi kosalo issariyādhipaccaṁ rajjaṁ kāreti, pahoti tattha rājā pasenadi kosalo samaṇaṁ vā brāhmaṇaṁ vā puññavantaṁ vā apuññavantaṁ vā brahmacariyavantaṁ vā abrahmacariyavantaṁ vā tamhā ṭhānā cāvetuṁ vā pabbājetuṁ vā”ti?
“Yāvatā, bho, rañño pasenadissa kosalassa vijitaṁ yattha ca rājā pasenadi kosalo issariyādhipaccaṁ rajjaṁ kāreti, pahoti tattha rājā pasenadi kosalo samaṇaṁ vā brāhmaṇaṁ vā puññavantaṁ vā apuññavantaṁ vā brahmacariyavantaṁ vā abrahmacariyavantaṁ vā tamhā ṭhānā cāvetuṁ vā pabbājetuṁ vā”ti.
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, senāpati,

As far as the dominion of King Pasenadi of Kosala extends, where he rules as sovereign lord, can he topple or expel from that place any ascetic or brahmin, regardless of whether they are good or bad, or whether or not they are genuine spiritual practitioners?” “He can, worthy.” “What do you think, general?

yāvatā rañño pasenadissa kosalassa avijitaṁ yattha ca rājā pasenadi kosalo na issariyādhipaccaṁ rajjaṁ kāreti, tattha pahoti rājā pasenadi kosalo samaṇaṁ vā brāhmaṇaṁ vā puññavantaṁ vā apuññavantaṁ vā brahmacariyavantaṁ vā abrahmacariyavantaṁ vā tamhā ṭhānā cāvetuṁ vā pabbājetuṁ vā”ti?
“Yāvatā, bho, rañño pasenadissa kosalassa avijitaṁ yattha ca rājā pasenadi kosalo na issariyādhipaccaṁ rajjaṁ kāreti, na tattha pahoti rājā pasenadi kosalo samaṇaṁ vā brāhmaṇaṁ vā puññavantaṁ vā apuññavantaṁ vā brahmacariyavantaṁ vā abrahmacariyavantaṁ vā tamhā ṭhānā cāvetuṁ vā pabbājetuṁ vā”ti.
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, senāpati,
sutā te devā tāvatiṁsā”ti?
“Evaṁ, bho.
Sutā me devā tāvatiṁsā.
Idhāpi bhotā raññā pasenadinā kosalena sutā devā tāvatiṁsā”ti.

As far as the dominion of King Pasenadi does not extend, where he does not rule as sovereign lord, can he topple or expel from that place any ascetic or brahmin, regardless of whether they are good or bad, or whether or not they are genuine spiritual practitioners?” “He cannot, worthy.” “What do you think, general? Have you heard of the gods of the thirty-three?” “Yes, worthy, I’ve heard of them, and so has the worthy King Pasenadi.”

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