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Majjhima Nikāya 36

Mahāsaccakasutta

The Longer Discourse With Saccaka · Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato, SuttaCentral

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Evaṁ me sutaṁ—
ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā vesāliyaṁ viharati mahāvane kūṭāgārasālāyaṁ.

So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof.

Tena kho pana samayena bhagavā pubbaṇhasamayaṁ sunivattho hoti pattacīvaramādāya vesāliṁ piṇḍāya pavisitukāmo.

Now at that time in the morning the Buddha, being properly dressed, took his bowl and robe, wishing to enter Vesālī for alms.

Atha kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto jaṅghāvihāraṁ anucaṅkamamāno anuvicaramāno yena mahāvanaṁ kūṭāgārasālā tenupasaṅkami.
Addasā kho āyasmā ānando saccakaṁ nigaṇṭhaputtaṁ dūratova āgacchantaṁ.
Disvāna bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:
“ayaṁ, bhante, saccako nigaṇṭhaputto āgacchati bhassappavādako paṇḍitavādo sādhusammato bahujanassa.
Eso kho, bhante, avaṇṇakāmo buddhassa, avaṇṇakāmo dhammassa, avaṇṇakāmo saṅghassa.
Sādhu, bhante, bhagavā muhuttaṁ nisīdatu anukampaṁ upādāyā”ti.
Nisīdi bhagavā paññatte āsane.
Atha kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi, sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:

Then as Saccaka, the son of Jain parents, was going for a walk he approached the hall with the peaked roof in the Great Wood. Venerable Ānanda saw him coming off in the distance, and said to the Buddha, “Sir, Saccaka, the son of Jain parents, is coming. He’s a controversialist who pretends to be astute and is deemed holy by many people. He wants to discredit the Buddha, the teaching, and the Saṅgha. Please, sir, sit for an hour out of sympathy.” The Buddha sat down on the seat spread out. Then Saccaka went up to the Buddha, and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to the Buddha,

“Santi, bho gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kāyabhāvanānuyogamanuyuttā viharanti, no cittabhāvanaṁ.
Phusanti hi te, bho gotama, sārīrikaṁ dukkhaṁ vedanaṁ.
Bhūtapubbaṁ, bho gotama, sārīrikāya dukkhāya vedanāya phuṭṭhassa sato ūrukkhambhopi nāma bhavissati, hadayampi nāma phalissati, uṇhampi lohitaṁ mukhato uggamissati, ummādampi pāpuṇissati cittakkhepaṁ.
Tassa kho etaṁ, bho gotama, kāyanvayaṁ cittaṁ hoti, kāyassa vasena vattati.
Taṁ kissa hetu?
Abhāvitattā cittassa.
Santi pana, bho gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā cittabhāvanānuyogamanuyuttā viharanti, no kāyabhāvanaṁ.
Phusanti hi te, bho gotama, cetasikaṁ dukkhaṁ vedanaṁ.
Bhūtapubbaṁ, bho gotama, cetasikāya dukkhāya vedanāya phuṭṭhassa sato ūrukkhambhopi nāma bhavissati, hadayampi nāma phalissati, uṇhampi lohitaṁ mukhato uggamissati, ummādampi pāpuṇissati cittakkhepaṁ.

“Worthy Gotama, there are some ascetics and brahmins who live committed to the practice of developing physical endurance, without developing the mind. They suffer painful physical feelings. This happened to someone once. Their thighs became paralyzed, their heart burst, hot blood gushed from their mouth, and they went mad and lost their mind. Their mind was subject to the body, and the body had power over it. Why is that? Because their mind was not developed. There are some ascetics and brahmins who live committed to the practice of developing the mind, without developing physical endurance. They suffer painful mental feelings. This happened to someone once. Their thighs became paralyzed, their heart burst, hot blood gushed from their mouth, and they went mad and lost their mind.

Tassa kho eso, bho gotama, cittanvayo kāyo hoti, cittassa vasena vattati.
Taṁ kissa hetu?
Abhāvitattā kāyassa.
Tassa mayhaṁ, bho gotama, evaṁ hoti:
‘addhā bhoto gotamassa sāvakā cittabhāvanānuyogamanuyuttā viharanti, no kāyabhāvanan’”ti.

Their body was subject to the mind, and the mind had power over it. Why is that? Because their physical endurance was not developed. It occurs to me that The worthy Gotama’s disciples must live committed to the practice of developing the mind, without developing physical endurance.”

“Kinti pana te, aggivessana, kāyabhāvanā sutā”ti?
“Seyyathidaṁ—
nando vaccho, kiso saṅkicco, makkhali gosālo—
etehi, bho gotama, acelakā muttācārā hatthāpalekhanā naehibhaddantikā natiṭṭhabhaddantikā na abhihaṭaṁ na uddissakataṁ na nimantanaṁ sādiyanti,
te na kumbhimukhā paṭiggaṇhanti na kaḷopimukhā paṭiggaṇhanti na eḷakamantaraṁ na daṇḍamantaraṁ na musalamantaraṁ na dvinnaṁ bhuñjamānānaṁ na gabbhiniyā na pāyamānāya na purisantaragatāya na saṅkittīsu na yattha sā upaṭṭhito hoti na yattha makkhikā saṇḍasaṇḍacārinī, na macchaṁ na maṁsaṁ na suraṁ na merayaṁ na thusodakaṁ pivanti.
Te ekāgārikā vā honti ekālopikā, dvāgārikā vā honti dvālopikā …pe… sattāgārikā vā honti sattālopikā.
Ekissāpi dattiyā yāpenti, dvīhipi dattīhi yāpenti …pe… sattahipi dattīhi yāpenti.

“But Aggivessana, what have you heard about the development of physical endurance?” “Take, for example, Nanda Vaccha, Kisa Saṅkicca, and the bamboo-staffed ascetic Gosāla. They go naked, ignoring conventions. They lick their hands, and don’t come or wait when called. They don’t consent to food brought to them, or food prepared on their behalf, or an invitation for a meal. They don’t receive anything from a pot or bowl; or from someone who keeps sheep, or who has a weapon or a shovel in their home; or where a couple is eating; or where there is a woman who is pregnant, breastfeeding, or who lives with a man; or where there’s a hound waiting or flies buzzing. They accept no fish or meat or beer or wine, and drink no fermented gruel. They go to just one house for alms, taking just one mouthful, or two houses and two mouthfuls, up to seven houses and seven mouthfuls. They feed on one saucer a day, two saucers a day, up to seven saucers a day.

Ekāhikampi āhāraṁ āhārenti, dvīhikampi āhāraṁ āhārenti …pe… sattāhikampi āhāraṁ āhārenti. Iti evarūpaṁ addhamāsikampi pariyāyabhattabhojanānuyogamanuyuttā viharantī”ti.

They eat once a day, once every second day, up to once a week, and so on, even up to once a fortnight. They live committed to the practice of eating food at set intervals.”

“Kiṁ pana te, aggivessana, tāvatakeneva yāpentī”ti?
“No hidaṁ, bho gotama.
Appekadā, bho gotama, uḷārāni uḷārāni khādanīyāni khādanti, uḷārāni uḷārāni bhojanāni bhuñjanti, uḷārāni uḷārāni sāyanīyāni sāyanti, uḷārāni uḷārāni pānāni pivanti.
Te imaṁ kāyaṁ balaṁ gāhenti nāma, brūhenti nāma, medenti nāmā”ti.
“Yaṁ kho te, aggivessana, purimaṁ pahāya pacchā upacinanti, evaṁ imassa kāyassa ācayāpacayo hoti.
Kinti pana te, aggivessana, cittabhāvanā sutā”ti?
Cittabhāvanāya kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto bhagavatā puṭṭho samāno na sampāyāsi.

“But Aggivessana, do they get by on so little?” “No, worthy Gotama. Sometimes they eat luxury fresh and cooked foods and drink a variety of luxury beverages. They gather their body’s strength, build it up, and get fat.” “What they earlier gave up, they later got back. That is how there is the increase and decrease of this body. But Aggivessana, what have you heard about development of the mind?” When Saccaka was questioned by the Buddha about development of the mind, he was stumped.

Atha kho bhagavā saccakaṁ nigaṇṭhaputtaṁ etadavoca:
“yāpi kho te esā, aggivessana, purimā kāyabhāvanā bhāsitā sāpi ariyassa vinaye no dhammikā kāyabhāvanā.
Kāyabhāvanampi kho tvaṁ, aggivessana, na aññāsi, kuto pana tvaṁ cittabhāvanaṁ jānissasi?
Api ca, aggivessana, yathā abhāvitakāyo ca hoti abhāvitacitto ca, bhāvitakāyo ca hoti bhāvitacitto ca.
Taṁ suṇāhi, sādhukaṁ manasi karohi, bhāsissāmī”ti.
“Evaṁ, bho”ti kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto bhagavato paccassosi.
Bhagavā etadavoca:

So the Buddha said to Saccaka, “The development of physical endurance that you have described is not the legitimate development of physical endurance in the Noble One’s training. And since you don’t even understand the development of physical endurance, how can you possibly understand the development of the mind? Still, as to how someone is undeveloped in physical endurance and mind, and how someone is developed in physical endurance and mind, listen and apply your mind well, I will speak.” “Yes, worthy sir,” replied Saccaka. The Buddha said this:

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